Road safety campaigners

obi_waynne

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What are your thoughts on the road safety campaigners?

In my opinion they are a load of jobsworths which have a narrowsighted view of our roads. They also take delight in causing misery and getting new legislation imposed.

However are they a ficticious scape goat that has been used to divert attention from the policy makers intent on generating revenue?

Road safety is a good thing. We need to promote better driving standards and increase the level of attention and awareness used by drivers. New laws are not the way to do this though.

What are you thoughts on this thorny issue?
 
Road safety campaigners are usually p... poor drivers who are unable to think above 5mph
why do you think the likes of us wont get a job as 1 of them

in saying that, if i was the minister for transport in this country, i would half the no. of rd deaths in the first year

the goverment make a lot of dosh from rd tax, and they dont put it into the rds either

and no, i wouldn put it in to my pocket,
id take 800 a week, plus traveling costs and drive around the whole island checking rds, and what saftey measures i think should be improvised

unfortunatley, you need money to get into power here so i guess it wont matter what i believe, can be done to make irish rds safer
all i can do is avoid having a crash myself
 
Road safety campaigns are just thinly veiled taxation schemes. I do wonder if the traffic planners who devise the roundabout traffic light systems have ever driven a car at all.
 
Hmmmmm

Road safety campaigners (as opposed to road safety officers) are generally normal (unpaid) members of the public galvanised into action because of a death of a friend or relative.

They have no experience in traffic law or safety issues, but campaign on the 'something must be done' ticket.

For example (I was involved in the cleanup and subsequent fallout), a lad around 20 was jogging along the verge of a national speed limit single carriageway. He was on the last section of a circuit and listening to his iPod. He needed to cross the road to get to his house on the estate opposite. Instead of using the central island provided, he simple stepped out into the carriageway without looking in an attempt to cross the road diagonally. He was hit by a car, travelling well within the limit, and thrown across the road into the path of another vehicle travelling in the opposite direction. He died on the scene.

His mother started a campaign for the speed to be reduced to 30mph and a zebra crossing to be installed. She refuses to accept that the sole reason for her son's death was his inattention. He didn't use the existing central refuge so wouldn't have used a zebra. There is no way the speed limit will be reduced to 30mph. Even if it was to be reduced to 40, that speed will still kill.

However.......

Speed limits and other safety/congestion schemes are, generally, installed for good road safety reasons by, generally, experienced and suitably qualified practitioners (excepting that politicians can insist on some really daft, knee jerk, schemes that the engineers have to somehow install safely). There are usually a good safety reasons for spending scant resources on speed reduction schemes, they are not done just to annoy us or make money. All traffic fines are voluntary, you have a free choice whether to risk getting caught or not.

The human body is designed to survive impacts with hard objects up to around 20mph without serious injury. Most people will survive impacts up to 30mph. Most people will die if hit at 40mph. Those killed because you think that you are a good driver with exceptional reactions so don't need to adhere to the rules have friends and relatives who will grieve for the rest of their lives because you wanted to be somewhere a few seconds earlier.

If you want to go fast, join a car club that organises racing events. Take up rallying. There are many track days around the country. Santa Pod is running 25 'run what ya brung' meets next year. Not my scene, but there are drift meets all over the country, Santa Pod even runs 'drift what ya brung' days. Take up sprinting or hill climbing.

There is no excuse to be a know-it-all arsehole on the road.

Despite my advancing years, I am not a cap wearing, pipe smoking, Volvo driver or a sandal wearing, tree hugging, Prius driving eco warrior. I am a fully paid up member of the go-faster club and lifelong petrolhead. In my long lost youth I used to street race for money (when I was a know-it-all arsehole). I drive (when it is warm) a 140bhp Lotus 7 lookalike and am building a 520+bhp 600kg road car. I don't always stick to the limits (except 30mph ones).

End of rant. Duck for cover.........
 
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One thing that annoys me the most is the advert at the moment or had been on about if you hit me at 30 then i will survive and if you hit me at 40 i am dead all said by a little girl, Now i agree in places in front of schools etc 30 is fine but, If a kid was hit by a new fiesta at 40 there is a big chance she will live, It she is hit by a Range Rover Sport at 30 i am pretty sure she would be worse off and more probably dead. What annoys me is that speed doesnt kill but people without the ability to manage and use it safetly,
For instance my ex used to drive at the speed limits but her ability to drive was crap, not observant, car control, signalling. and this is my issue with people they think that the only thing that matters is the speed not the hazard awarness or the good use of signals. The people by the side of the road that have no right to be there and whom think speed is the devil never break speed limits but are the worst drivers of all and the only thing that matters is speed,
This goverment needs to get a grip on why the roads are dangerous and for the fact that 4,000 people died last year and there are 10's of millions of vehicles on the roads (i am not sure on precise figures) isnt such a bad statistic really, is it not or is this my thinking to realistically???
 
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Road safety campaigners are usually p... poor drivers who are unable to think above 5mph

Agree with that totally. Things should be done differently to what they are doing now. I think a survey from the motorists themselves would work better than the gouvernment just deciding what to do. We use the roads why can't we decide?
 
why do they wait for several accidents to occur before taking action??
i reckon fire everyone involved in rd saftey and pay any person that points out a dangerous or prone to accident parts of the rd network

as turbo mad man (he will know what i mean) its our rds, let us decide
eveyone that sees something wrong will tell as they will get paid for it (within reason)
and when the council look at it, fix it there and then
 
why do they wait for several accidents to occur before taking action??
i reckon fire everyone involved in rd saftey and pay any person that points out a dangerous or prone to accident parts of the rd network

as turbo mad man (he will know what i mean) its our rds, let us decide
eveyone that sees something wrong will tell as they will get paid for it (within reason)
and when the council look at it, fix it there and then
 
Police Traffic Officers are usually very level headed and pragmatic when it comes to road safety. These guys (and ladies), along with fire and ambulance crews have the unfortunate privilege of cleaning up after a multiple casualty accident occurs.

I think what I'm getting at is that just continually lowering speed limits and enforcing them ever more rigorously is not really going to do much to assist safety.

I am not endorsing charging about in built up areas, much to the contrary, those are the places when speed limits should be treated as absolute maxima.

On derestricted roads and motorways a little common sense should be applied. It generally is, too, by the traffic police, at least.

I do not see that hitting 85/90mph on an A-road whilst swiftly passing a couple of HGVs should be seen as a heinous crime against humanity. Surely it makes sense to complete one' manoeuvre and return to the correct side of the road ASAP? I think most police drivers would concur. And this is where the voluntary campaigners get it wrong as they're unable to disassociate this type of situation with the idiot who just blunders about at high speed all the time. Or, even, those like themselves who kid 'emselves that they're good drivers just because they never break the speed limit.

It's possible to drive stupidly without even exceeding the posted limit and that's why I'd like to see more attention given to attitutde, observation and perception than simply to speed. Notice I've omitted car control? That because modern cars are so damned easy to drive and are so stable even in extreme situations. If you really need ultra specially honed mechanical car control skills on the road then YOU ARE GOING FAR, FAR, FAR TOO FAST!!!!
 
I agree with HDI but not on the later point, Now cars are becoming easier however the basics are the same, clutch control, knowing the power and performance of your car, controlling lane discpline.
For instance where i live and i think throughout the country there are many men and ladies who drive big cars, Now they have no control or idea of the size, For instance judging gaps etc, Also what wind does to a high centre of gravity vehicle at 90 mph,

Now i completely agree with modern cars being very easy to drive but the 80 yrold wondering lane to lane or going down the wrond slip road, is not good car control
 
Not saying car control is unnecessary, but if you're exploring the outer limits of your car and your skills constantly then you're not in control of it anyway.
 
Yes i agree but if you have no control of confidence then u are a time bomb
 
Agree with that totally. Things should be done differently to what they are doing now. I think a survey from the motorists themselves would work better than the gouvernment just deciding what to do. We use the roads why can't we decide?

Mainly because road users haven't a clue on how to go about it. Crikey, most of them can hardly manage to keep a car on the road as soon as a little frost appears, let alone design a safe one.

Just because we use them doesn't mean we know anyhting about them. I fly in large airliners but know FA about them and wouldn't dream of flying in one maintained or built by its passengers. Likewise with roads.

All surveys establish is the majority view of the un-informed masses.

You say things should be done differently. OK, what do you suggest, other than a survey which would achieve SFA?
 
Yes i agree but if you have no control of confidence then u are a time bomb

I agre with this totally. Somehow the flavour of my post has become distorted.

Do you, AutoCustomEng, find yourself at the limits of your ability every time you drive on the public highway? I suspect not. Likewise, nor do I. OG probably doesn't either. I hope that this applies to the majority of forum members.

All I am alluding to is that controlling a modern car is not the skillful exercise required to control a 1940's car.

I am in no way saying that it's OK to be all over the road and blissfully unaware of the fact.

Modern cars go arrow straight on straight roads without steering intervention. But I'm not saying you let go of the wheel, am I?

It should be a given that you know the safety envelope of your car, along with its width (re gaps), its braking performance and it's lateral grip.

But that doen't mean you're a bad driver simply because you don't exploit every last opportunity to take it to the edge on the road. That's why we have track facilities.
 
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Ok, one thing i would like to suggest is a more comphrensive driving test that would have to be redone every 10 years just like every license out their Next time you are in a traffic cue think who is the cause,??
Also i have a theory, this may be agreed with or not but i will say it anyway. I know that if someone is doing the speed limit i do not mind, but i do mind people who are under the speed limit and are really over cautious and generally slow. This i think and know it angers me and other drivers who need to be somewhere, this makes me speed, no logic behind it but pure anger and frustration

Just a little add, I know that cars from the 1920s take alot more hardwork as i do work on Frazernashes etc, they do still require skill when driving fast but are still easy when driving at the speed limit

Now i am not saying that they are completely useless at driving but they seem over hesitate and unable to judge factors that you or i are able to make a quick decesion on delaying traffic and the presumptions of other road users like ourselves causing a delay, or accident, resulting in anger
 
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The point I was making OG was that we should have a say in what gets done. I don't mean give us all the decision. Just some of it. I think the gouvernment would go along way if they stopped and really thought about the motorist instead of politics.....
 
I think that we all agree that just reducing the speed limits is not the answer, I think maybe one of the best ideas is a renewal every 10 years on the license, It does not have to be a test more a mediation of driving, This would catch all bad drivers out
 
The point I was making OG was that we should have a say in what gets done. I don't mean give us all the decision. Just some of it. I think the gouvernment would go along way if they stopped and really thought about the motorist instead of politics.....

[FONT=&quot]Ah, but you do. It’s called local government, in the form of parish, town and district councils. The guys and gals you elect to serve in these institutions and are there to reflect your concerns. These are the very people who campaign for traffic controls because they are badgered by local residents to 'do something' about the speeding past their homes.

We, the highway authority (usually the County Council), learn about a lot of problems from these sources. However, we also get a lot of letters and phone calls from concerned residents about speeding. EVERYONE who writes or phones wants speeds reduced through their village/past their house/near their kid's school. etc. I wonder, however, how many of them slow down through other villages/houses/schools? At public meetings that I have chaired (another democratic venue where you can make your point and express your opinions) no one admits to speeding, which I take with a large pinch of salt.

So, there are various ways that you can have your say, making your comments and suggestions known to the highway/safety engineers. We don't know everything and are not always right (unlike politicians and cab drivers) so I always make a point to talking to the locals who have to live with the problems. I have changed designs (for the better) after discussing them with locals.

In order to have a say (and an effect) on highway schemes, you have to get off your backside and get involved. Go to parish meetings that are discussing the issues that concern you, rather than just bitch about them down the pub (or on here). The people who go to these meetings do have an effect, which is what democracy is all about. We do listen, despite what the general public think. Write to the County Council's highways department. Better still; get a lot of people to write.

Important note - Don't bother with petitions; they are a waste of time. People sign these not knowing what they are just to get rid of the canvasser. We take much more notice of people who are prepared to take the time to actually write to us, it shows a real concern. 20 letters carry much more weight than 2000 signatures on a petition.

Most of the highway and road safety engineers I work with are also driving enthusiasts. We know the ground clearance problems caused by safety cushions and humps (They will NOT damage your suspension if driven over at the design speed and have been installed correctly). There isn't a method of reducing the speed of the idiots that doesn't interfere with the law abiding. Vertical deflection devices (humps and cushions) slow traffic by varying but usually significant amounts. Chicanes and other horizontal deflection devices usually slow traffic but can also introduce conflict collisions that weren't there before their introduction.

It is very easy to type away at the keyboard bitching about what the things we traffic engineers do in order to try to keep you, me, your family and friends alive, but it is far harder to come up with suggestions that work better that what we currently have. Please tell me your ideas. If you come up with a world-beater I promise to give you half a credit and 10% of the royalties ;)[/FONT]
 
Re-testing would be completely couter-productive if the idea was to reduce all drivers to day after passed test standard.

How can you say counter-productive? It is not to test standard more a mediation of the driver, If the driver does not show the skill of driving carefully and with due care and attention then a retest would be enforced,

Its funny i like what steve has said about noone admits to speeding because 90% of people do it, Some go a bit faster then others but no doubt everyone speeds.Funny when coppers get caught the ones that are meant to be stopping us.

I do not mind police doing random speed checks through areas that are of high concern for instance through school areas but local residents who feel that there area that has no pedestrians on it or very few, and is not dangerous to exceed 30 make the council enforce a 30mph speed limit, I lived in the country and still do, most roads are national, but we have horses, walkers cyclist, no we use a common sense to judge when and were the correct speed should be used,

I just want to conclude that with nowadays health and safety laws being applied the common sense of driving has been lost and more just stick to the golden rules making driving i feel more dangerous due to the loss of instinct. Dont know if this makes sense to anyone else
 
Because speed itself is not the biggest cause of safety problems. Please read previous posts. As you say, you live in the country. So do I. As such, I use good judgement as to the appropriate speed to use at any particular juncture.

I think we all agree on this. Simply driving to the posted limit alone does not constitute safe driving. Doing 105mph on a clear, dry and wide road with a mile of vision is far safer than blindly belting past a school at chucking out time at 30mph.
 
what hdi is saying is, those posts that show what speed you should do are a load of .........

i never obay a speed sign, their either too fast or too slow for the rd ahead
theres 1 over here that says go 80 kph thats passing a school
and another thats 80 kph that has a chicane over a bridge, many trucks have went over that bridge, and will do do anything, NO

then theres other that are 50 mph that is on a straight rd, thats a hot spot for lawmen and their speed traps

personally, i believe if you follow the rules of the rd, ( most of them) your going to crash or be killed
we dont need saftey compainers to keep us safe, thats a job for you and only you
be carefull out there fellas, thats all i say
 
It's just human nature to go beyond the limits if you ask me. There is always someone who is willing to go thrashing about everywhere with total disregard to everyone. And it's not just our job as motorists to make sure pedestrians look to see if a car is coming before crossing the road. Pedestrians should be able to do this as well. It's alright educating the driver about driving but who educates the pedestrian about crossing? It's normally left to common sense. Which again is something alot of drivers are missing.
 
and common sense is all everybody needs, its not that hard
and the worst out of the pedestrians are the drunk people coming from pubs at the weekends
 

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