Speed trap radar detectors.

[obi_waynne]

Does anyone own/use a speed trap radar detector? A while ago there was some radar/laser jammers on the market.

What are the legalities of buying/owning/using these devices?

Do they actually work?

 

[HDi fun]

Radar is declining in use as a sensing and detecting technology.

For years radar detectors were illegal according to the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949.

There was a landmark ruling (and precedent set) as late as 1998 where a Scottish Court ruled that a radar detector device used to detect the presence of radar 'signals' was not actually illegal because it [the detector] did not actually intercept or interfere with Police or Home Office communications.

The decision was taken on the basis that raw radio waves (radar, in this case) does not actually contain any useable information as such. So therefore the defendant was not guilty of intercepting Police communications.

Prior to this case, the use of radar detectors had been considered illegal!

Sadly, a few years later, consideration was given to the fact that the radar detectors interfered with Police 'operations'. Presumably, the 'operations' concerned were those connected with issuing speeding tickets to drivers. This decision was taken, as far as I know, without consultation. Much like so many others under the auspices of such personnel as Blair and Brown.

Laser jammers have never been legal, under the same 1949 Act, which is strange because there weren't too many hand held laser devices available to the Police in 1949!

The ramifications are multiple:

1. If speed detection equipment is employed at known accident blackspots then surely anyone able to detect the equipment and slow down is doing the right thing.

2. How do we define a blackspot? Supposedly the speed measuring equipment (tally van) must be within 2/10 of a mile of the blackspot. Funny how it doesn't have to be on the same road! Overpass/underpass etc?????

3. If the individuals operating the tally van devices; the ones who remove and replace wet film from the gatsos and the ones who decide the location of such devices all work for THE LOCAL AUTHORITY, then how can any of us interfere with POLICE OPERATIONS when the operators are CIVILIANS????????????

Traffic Police take a dim view of civvy operated systems (speeds vans etc.). It shows the Police in a bad light.

 

[obi_waynne]

Thats really interesting HDI - Hdipedia strikes again!

 

[pgarner]

the radar senders, the ones that open your posh garage doors when you approch, are illegal if you dont have the rest of the system fitted at home.
read something a few years ago (bout 5 i think) where they were finding the hairdryers were erroring a lot and it was due to the door openers. a think a few were procicuted as they were fitted but didnt own a garage for it to work

 

[Prince]

I would really like a mobile camera detector! Anyone know of a link that I can buy from?

Apparently you can do something with your number plate so that the camera gets jammed and can't take a reading. This is illegal though!

 

[pgarner]

you need to watch out prince. the radar detectors only go off when they sense the the radar gun going off. in other words most likly your speed has been recorded as your alarm goes off. other systems that come with sat navs have the most mobile locations installed but its murder as it goes off pretty much all the time.

the jammers see my post about the garage openers

 

[HDi fun]

Radar detectors, although unlawful [illegal is not the correct adjective], do work well if used in tandem with a GPS based device. Radio waves bounce off all sorts of surfaces (cars, for example - that's how the devices work) and scatter all over the place. It's this scatter that the radar detectors, err, detect.

A GPS device (which is only really an electronic map, SATNAV withs bells and whistles if you like) can alert you to the fact that you're close to a known speed measuring place. That can't be rendered unlawful, unless the government wants to make the drafting and sale of maps illegal.

If your radar detector pings then it's possible that there's a speed trap device in use proximate to you. Again, it could be in use on a different road that's closeby, perhaps bridge or underpass. That's why I question the use of such devices anyway.

Radar jammers work VERY well indeed. For certain ,the radar device will report an error to the operating officer, but there's no chance he can determine the offending vehicle. Never, mind get into the car, give chase and stop and caution the driver.

Laser devices are nasty. Too fast, and too accurate. LiDar 20/20 is especially difficult to defeat.

And it's the favourite of the LOCAL AUTHORITY operated speed vans. Perhaps that's becuase the operators of such vehicles and devices are brain dead anyway.

 

[old-git]

The ramifications are multiple:

1. If speed detection equipment is employed at known accident blackspots then surely anyone able to detect the equipment and slow down is doing the right thing.

2. How do we define a blackspot? Supposedly the speed measuring equipment (tally van) must be within 2/10 of a mile of the blackspot. Funny how it doesn't have to be on the same road! Overpass/underpass etc?????

3. If the individuals operating the tally van devices; the ones who remove and replace wet film from the gatsos and the ones who decide the location of such devices all work for THE LOCAL AUTHORITY, then how can any of us interfere with POLICE OPERATIONS when the operators are CIVILIANS????????????

Traffic Police take a dim view of civvy operated systems (speeds vans etc.). It shows the Police in a bad light.

Oooooooooooo.....
Right.......

1. If you are travelling at or below the indicated speed there is no need for radar detectors or to slow down.

2. Not usually called blackspots these days, not since the Accident Reduction 2000 Programme. We call them accident remedial sites (accident is a misnomer, should really be called collisions or crashes). These used to be defined as a site with 4 or more injury collisions in a 3 year period, but his changed recently. Safety camera sites use a similar, if slightly different, criteria (I think 6 in 4).

Safety camera equipment should be on the stretch of road with the problem, if it is safe to do so. That is why the camera isn't always at the 'proper' site. However, it has been 'statisically' proven that the effect of a camera extends well beyond its actual location (even more so when detectors are used).

3. The location of safety camera sites are agreed between the police and local authorities. The LAs have tough government set injury reduction targets to meet, so they are more interested in meeting those targets than income generation, despite what the media claims. As I have said on this soapbox before, speeding tickets are voluntary, not compulsory so if you don't like the rules, don't play the game.

Camera sites may well be maintained by civilians, but it is a partnership and the police do the monitoring and enforcement so the operators ARE NOT civilians. Civilains cannot issue speeding tickets.

Not sure what you mean, HD, by civvy operated speed vans?

End of rant

 

[HDi fun]

It's very simple: The TVP liveried vans used in this area are staffed and operated by civilians as opposed to being operated by police officers. What did you think I meant?

 

[andym1fjg]

I would really like a mobile camera detector! Anyone know of a link that I can buy from?

Apparently you can do something with your number plate so that the camera gets jammed and can't take a reading. This is illegal though!

:amazed: Take a look at the front of my Ride in users Images I got stopped in yarmouth last week they said...our cameras didnt pick your Plate up because its tilted ...I said ohh ..they asked me to straighten it but I hav,nt as it looks good as it is,,I let ya know soon if they throw the book at me.

 

[Juddian]

I've still got the good old 'drivesmart' GPS dtector, despite the fact drivesmart have all but given up and disappeared, the unit is ugly as hell, the size of a housebrick, but works.

The difference between the different brands of gps detector is usually not a lot, except for price and update charges, however when reading all the 'bigging up' of their respective products, its the usual case of 'what they don't tell you is more important'.
And the one thing most of the big names don't do is tell you where the mobile tax collecting vehicles will be.
My sons got a big name jobbie and its completely useless, it don't warn of any mobile van sites at all, not much of an angel in my book.
So whatever make you look at, be sure it has the facility to locate the usual haunts of the mobile sites!!!!

I've also got a 'beltronics 550' radar and laser detector, which is good at telling you (as already said) if used in conjuction with a GPS which of the gatso's are working, but in practice, the laser detector has never gone off when i've been approaching a working mobile van, so its pretty useless really.

My experience with these systems so far tells me the most important thing to get is a gps with up to date database of mobile sites, and regularly update.

Don't think any of the force's use radar any more, but i stand to be corrected.

 

[HDi fun]

That sounds about right - radar has been abandoned for handheld devices it seems. The miniGATSOs still appear here and there, bastard devices that sit on knee high tripods on the side of the road. Perhaps running it over is an option.

I have investigated laser detectors online over the years. The general opinion is that they don't give you enough warning even if they do detect and notify you of the 'cone' of laser light pointed at the front of your car. Lidar 20/20 and similar devices are very rapid in operation. The only chance of defence you might have is to question the accuracy of the aiming of it by the operating officer (or civilian, although OG is convinced that civvy's NEVER operate these things).

 

[obi_waynne]

There was a story probably an urban legend where a police officers radar gun was suddenly jammed. A fighter jet on exercises overhead isolated it as hostile, jammed it and locked on. (Now that could have been an interesting incident! - perhaps we should all be driving fighter jets? Eurofigher 2000 anyone?)

 

[HDi fun]

The fighter jet story is a true one and it happened in the Scottish Highlands in the early 1990's. The plane was being flown in practice apparently. The police radar handheld locked onto it, recordeda speed of something like 400mph and the set itself into 'I NEED TO RECALIBRATION MODE' as a result of the high speed recorded and then switched itself off!!

 

[pgarner]

happened last year as well, the police were sitting close to the sea where 2 tornados went over doing low level training and jammed the system this was to do with the missle guidence system

 

[Pixel]

The only thing Ive heard of is the "snooper" which tells you the location of all speed cameras in the local area which you are traveling in and also wether they are turned on or off.

I think they can be usefull to remind you to slow down but even if I was using one and it said the one ahead was turned off, I wouldnt bet 3 points and a £80 fine on it. I would still go past at 28/29.

 

[HDi fun]

Blimey is it eighty quid now?

 

[obi_waynne]

A PDA with Sat/NAV and snooper module would be the best bet - just one device.

 

[HDi fun]

How about hard wiring the radar detector to the brake assist?

 

[obi_waynne]

Now you might be onto something there HDI!

 

[old-git]

T
The only chance of defence you might have is to question the accuracy of the aiming of it by the operating officer (or civilian, although OG is convinced that civvy's NEVER operate these things).

Checked this out. In Essex, only off duty police officers are used. The reason for this is simply a matter of safety. Operators are at quite a risk of attack so it is not a good idea to put untrained civilians in the line of fire. The road safety section is not aware of anyone using civilians for this task, although I can't say that no one does. Even if they did, it would make no difference to the speed that you are caught driving at. All they do is check that the equipment has been calibrated that day, set it up and let it run. If the unit is fitted with a licence plate reader they will have to respond to messages from that. However, they do not decide who gets a ticket. That is done back at headquarters by police officers.

What HD may be talking about are the speed guns owned by parish councils and operated by civilians. These are part of a nationwide speed reduction campaign. The guns are bought by parishes and users are trained by the police. However, NO tickets are issued as a result of these. If they record you exceeding the speed limit, a note of your licence place number is recorded and passed to the police. In due course you will receive a letter from the police explaining that you were recorded doing, for example, 38mph in a 30mph limit. The letter will go on to explain the danger of this, etc, etc and ask you to reduce your speed (I know, I got one). If the same car is regularly caught then the police will set up their own trap to catch the miscrieant.

 

[HDi fun]

Nope, I'm aware of the parish council operated devices, also the SID smiley face things are used in a similar fashion.

Perhaps it's CSOs that are operating the van mounted/contained devices in my area. Whatever it is, I have been told by serving traffic officers that such devices are not popular with them [traffic officers] as it gives the force a poor reputation in their opinion(s).

I'm anxious, Steve, to ensure that you and I don't digress from the original topic much further for fear of inciting a riot. At this juncture it would appear, to an uninitiated outsider that:

1. I'm totally against speed enforcement and propose we all drive about with zero regard for the law; and

2. You're totally in favour of it regardless of the motives, goals or reason for it existing.

It's fair to assume that neither of the above statements is accurate. Further, I'm sure that we agree on 99% of the reasons behind such enforcement. All that's being discussed here is opinions regarding it's implementation and usage.

I am not opposed to enforcement when applied correctly, and I'm sure that you're against it being applied inappropriately or indiscriminately.

Personally (as if I can speak for anyone else anyway ), the SID devices and other ones where prosecution is never considered work well in my opinion. Telling someone that they got away with it often elicits a more favourable response than issuing a fixed penalty for a something minor, such as 81mph on a motorway, for example. Which often serves only to alienate the Police.

Cheers,

Kind regards,

Paul.

 

[old-git]

Nope, I'm aware of the parish council operated devices, also the SID smiley face things are used in a similar fashion.

Perhaps it's CSOs that are operating the van mounted/contained devices in my area. Whatever it is, I have been told by serving traffic officers that such devices are not popular with them [traffic officers] as it gives the force a poor reputation in their opinion(s).

I'm anxious, Steve, to ensure that you and I don't digress from the original topic much further for fear of inciting a riot. At this juncture it would appear, to an uninitiated outsider that:

1. I'm totally against speed enforcement and propose we all drive about with zero regard for the law; and

2. You're totally in favour of it regardless of the motives, goals or reason for it existing.

It's fair to assume that neither of the above statements is accurate. Further, I'm sure that we agree on 99% of the reasons behind such enforcement. All that's being discussed here is opinions regarding it's implementation and usage.

I am not opposed to enforcement when applied correctly, and I'm sure that you're against it being applied inappropriately or indiscriminately.

Personally (as if I can speak for anyone else anyway ), the SID devices and other ones where prosecution is never considered work well in my opinion. Telling someone that they got away with it often elicits a more favourable response than issuing a fixed penalty for a something minor, such as 81mph on a motorway, for example. Which often serves only to alienate the Police.

Cheers,

Kind regards,

Paul.

Couldn't have put it better myself

It just seems to me that many people (you and me excluded ) just read the papers and repeat the mantra without knowing anything about the subject.

Pensonally, the more fines collected from speeders means less has to be collected from me

Getting caught and fines are voluntary. No one is forcing you to speed. If caught speeding in a 30mph zone you deserve it. Taking into account that cameras are set higher than 30 and your speedo usually reads fast, you will have to be travelling considerably faster than 30 to get flashed.

Bearing in mind that motorways are the safest roads, I am not so sure about cameras on these. However, when you do get a crash it is often a biggie.

At the end of the day, there is little chance of them going away for some considerable time so learn to deal with them. I got caught by a radar trap over 30 years ago (but not since), so don't expect them to disappear any time soon.

If you get caught by one, take a step back and consider why you got caught. Were you not paying enough attention to your driving so you missed the signs saying speed cameras operating in the area? Permanent sites are published, mobile ones in your area are broadcast on local radio stations. Look for the marks on the ground at fixed sites. Watch out for brake lights where you wouldn't expect to see them. Consider not speeding in unfamilair areas. Get a detector. Slow down (Gosh, radical idea ).

Amongst safety engineers, a camera catching no one is great as it means it is working. Trouble is that there needs to be a certain amount of non-compliance in order to pay for the infrastructure rather than taking it from the normal tax system. So, in reality, speeders are paying for the cameras to be installed to catch them! No speeders, no cameras.

Blimey, this would be much easier to discuss over a beer

 

[HDi fun]

Steve, yes, that's the kind of response I thought you'd proffer. Yep, I agree, if you do manage to get clobbered by a 'tally van' then you probably just do deserve to be clobbered.

It's not that difficult to look ahead - through, under, over all sorts of other roadside furniture, parked vehicles etc. At obtuse angles refections from window glass and even vehicle sides can give you some very early anticipation of what's going on ahead. None of it is conclusive but it can help you to get a few seconds advantage of what might just be awaiting your arrival.

Anticipation is the key to safety and making swift progress. But, you know all this so I'm not going to bash it out again.

Now, how about that beer?

 

[old-git]

Steve, yes, that's the kind of response I thought you'd proffer. Yep, I agree, if you do manage to get clobbered by a 'tally van' then you probably just do deserve to be clobbered.

Now, how about that beer?

Sounds like a good idea. Where are you based? I'm near Chelmsford, Essex.