Making a start on new engine.

[MADRod]

It was back in 2008 that my 838bhp engine was on the engine Dyno. Its now time for the next development to get underway.
The new engine is start again with new Crank, Rods, Pistons, changes to head & exhaust cam & will have a dry sump system fitted. One Area of development is Head integrity. We already have a steel ring & multilayer gasket but as a former designer in the Aviation industry i knew materials considered top knotch on cars were always used because of budget restraints. A set of 10 Mountune long studs cost £250 but were considered mediocre when i had them tested. To double the sheer strength meant a set would cost £2500. I settled for a 55% increase in shear strength at just over £1000 the nuts were £230 .
Block integrity is being tackled again by using Aviation technology Im not allowed to say much about this because its a first certainly in the UK lets say its an Harmonic balancer but not as you normally use one. It will mean a girdle is not required just as well as they dont cure the block cracking at high Power.
My old inlet system was 'balls out' at 850 so Jenvey was approached to produce a 1000bhp set of ITB's & they are shown below. It will have 8 1000cc injectors & twin fuel rails. The boost levels will be high up to 55psi if thats whats required to make the Power & E85 fuel is a possibility.

This wont be a OG style of build thread ive not got the time for frequent updates but I will try to give progress reports from time to time.
It will go on an engine Dyno to see what it makes .

 

[davalav]

Wow! That looks stunning mate. I am looking forward to more updates.

 

[obi_waynne]

Please keep us posted, this sounds like an amazing project. I will watch this thread with a great deal of interest. I wish you all the best.

What are your aims in this?

 

[old-git]

Ouch!....

I take it that the car is staying fully upholstered and road usable?

Any indication on the expected power output, or is that hush hush ATM?

 

[TCJBOLDIE]

Good luck with the build .Will watch with interest .Sounds like a money pit so hope you have deep pockets

 

[MADRod]

Ouch!....

I take it that the car is staying fully upholstered and road usable?

Any indication on the expected power output, or is that hush hush ATM?

Yes it will remain my road car with all the gear in the car.
With the GTX4202 fitted it will be pushed hard certainly to 3.5bar of boost at which it should tad the magic 1000bhp on the BW EFR9180 for road use it will push close to 850bhp at more modest boost. Its still on the orginal Ford Block & head (lots of mods) so will be a first in the Uk this will also require a fancy fuel maybe E85 or VP import or we may try both. The car is being prepared to try & push the Ford UK Topspeed record we have held since 2004 beyond 214mph. Recently a Ford GT Mirage 720 became the second Ford to run 206mph so its time to defend the record.
Been to M.A.Developments today for the first time in a month & took pics of Parts that have arrived. Also listened in to a chat with his cam people on a mild tweak to the exhaust cam with slightly more lift & duration the cams are special grind for this engine only.

ps. Keep forgetting this is not a Ford site where my car is well known :embarrest: so forgot to mention its a Cosworth YB of 2150cc .

 

[old-git]

1000bhp on a standard block is pushing it, I'm impressed. At what RPM is this achieved?

There are some interesting fuels out there these days that give impressive gains.

What diff, box and clutch are you using now?

 

[MADRod]

1000bhp on a standard block is pushing it, I'm impressed. At what RPM is this achieved?

There are some interesting fuels out there these days that give impressive gains.

What diff, box and clutch are you using now?

We are trying new ideas from my time in the Aircraft industry. We are trying to eliminate the vibrations that cause the Block to crack at circa 900bhp. Most have tried a Girdle that is strapping another chunk of metal that will also vibrate to the Block it dont work as many have found out.
Harmonic dampers will help but thats only part of the solution we are looking at. Cant say any more because its a first & my Tuner is keeping it quiet it may just be a break through time will tell. The 850bhp was made at 7500rpm this will be slightly higher I guess but it will rev too 8.9k same as the last one. A 4 stage Dry sump system will cure the oil problems.
We are using a Tremec TKO gearbox its bomb proof & has been in the car 11 years. The clutch was a Helix triple plate but they now do a 800ft-lb twin plate which is another option. The Diff is a 10.5" Jaguar with Diff Loc again its bomb proof & has taken 11 years of abuse.

 

[T9 man]

It all sounds marvellous Rod, I shall definitely be monitoring this thread with great interest

 

[MADRod]

All the bits for the new engine will be ready to go to Vibration Free next week. Discussed what we are trying to achieve with Mark the Maths say if Torgue is limited to 660ft-lb across the range it will require circa 58psi (4 bar) of boost to make 1000bhp @ 8k we will try to push the GTX42 & the EFR9180 hard enough to see if in practise those figures hold true. The fuel will be E85. The aim is also 800bhp on pump fuel for the road which will require more sensible boost (2.8 bar).
It now looks as if the 1000bhp engine may be used in the car & not just for show bit mind blowing for an old geezer but im as mad as a box of frogs so lets bring it on. The Nitrous will then be for show not go.
One problem is the Autronic internal map sensor only works to 50psi so we are asking if they can fit a 5bar absolute if not Mark can map around the limitation for a Topspeed run. The real solution is the new fancy ECU ive had my ears bombarded with

but that means a new loom, sensors etc for maybe a single Topspeed run.
Having been told whats comming from the EFR range in 2015 I may as well chuck this lot in the bin it will change the game again. They will also look at one of Marks suggestions for 2015 guess what it will be perfect for mine the barsteward

I wish to quit in 2015

.
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[TCJBOLDIE]

All the bits for the new engine will be ready to go to Vibration Free next week. Discussed what we are trying to achieve with Mark the Maths say if Torgue is limited to 660ft-lb across the range it will require circa 58psi (4 bar) of boost to make 1000bhp @ 8k we will try to push the GTX42 & the EFR9180 hard enough to see if in practise those figures hold true. The fuel will be E85. The aim is also 800bhp on pump fuel for the road which will require more sensible boost (2.8 bar).
It now looks as if the 1000bhp engine may be used in the car & not just for show bit mind blowing for an old geezer but im as mad as a box of frogs so lets bring it on. The Nitrous will then be for show not go.
One problem is the Autronic internal map sensor only works to 50psi so we are asking if they can fit a 5bar absolute if not Mark can map around the limitation for a Topspeed run. The real solution is the new fancy ECU ive had my ears bombarded with

but that means a new loom, sensors etc for maybe a single Topspeed run.
Having been told whats comming from the EFR range in 2015 I may as well chuck this lot in the bin it will change the game again. They will also look at one of Marks suggestions for 2015 guess what it will be perfect for mine the barsteward

I wish to quit in 2015

.
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:blink::blink::blink: must have very deep pockets

 

[MADRod]

Had an horrendous 2 weeks with my teeth problems so didnt even think about the car :smile:.
Saw my Tuner today the new Inlet cam has arrived. He said the CP Pistons we have are not suitable so a new set has been ordered from the States. Its a 1off so will take time, its due last week in January. All other parts are now available except the valve springs which are still to be specced so all the bits will be off to Vibration Free for balancing next week.
The ECU can be modified to take a 5bar absolute map sensor so that up to 60psi can be used BUT it will take about 3 months or more as it has to go back to Australia :shock:. Mark can map around this so we are going to leave the Map Sensor as it is for the Dyno session. If we decide to run these silly Boost levels in the car the ECU can be modified after the Dyno session.
Probably no more posts on this before Christmas so more progress in January I HOPE .

 

[HDi fun]

Why four cylinders? Inline 6 is 1st and 2nd order harmonic vibration free. I know however that you're not likely to get the same rev ability with a six due to the length of the crankshaft.

 

[old-git]

They don't make YBs with 6 cylinders

 

[MADRod]

Why four cylinders? Inline 6 is 1st and 2nd order harmonic vibration free. I know however that you're not likely to get the same rev ability with a six due to the length of the crankshaft.

Its a YB Cosworth using the orginal Block so its a 4 cylinder we are not trying to build the most Powerfull/Fastest car just the fastest RS Cosworth. Its held that title & the fastest Ford in the UK record for 9 years todate.

 

[HDi fun]

OK thanks chaps - I'm catching up

 

[MADRod]

Still waiting for the pistons to arrive from the States. All the parts are at Vibration Free & ive asked them to make a 1off Harmonic balancer for the front of the crank to supplement the other mods done.
Ive decided to change my ECU to a Emtron KV8 as my Tuner asked, it has 44 inputs compared to the Autronic 15 so im no longer short of inputs. It also has closed loop Lambda which will automatically change air/fuel if it goes leam. Can also fit a Knock sensor as i now have inputs for it. A dry sump sensor will switch the engine off if the belt snaps a function my last ECU could not handle.

When I rang my Tuner to say go ahead with the new ECU i also said that i had an offer on the Autronic, his reply dont bother ive already sold it I knew you would buy the new one. He actually sold it for £300 more than I was going to sell it for :love:.

The Pistons are around 3 weeks way & the new Harmonic Balancer 5 weeks so ive lots of time to make a new loom.

 

[T9 man]

I am making lots of notes here

 

[davalav]

I saw a mental twin turbo Cossie RS on the front page of Fast Ford. No idea if it was a YB or not though. Keep the updates coming buddy!

 

[old-git]

Off topic, Rod, but it looks like, based on one of your photos on Photobucket, that you have been to the Bonneville salt flats?

If so, any advice, recommendations etc, as we are planning to go to the Speed Week in August as a joint 60th birthday present to ourselves (as well as Niagra and LA)?

 

[MADRod]

Off topic, Rod, but it looks like, based on one of your photos on Photobucket, that you have been to the Bonneville salt flats?

If so, any advice, recommendations etc, as we are planning to go to the Speed Week in August as a joint 60th birthday present to ourselves (as well as Niagra and LA)?

Never been to Bonneville. Its a picture of the Worlds fastest Sierra it reached 211.4mph in 5 miles faster than the 210.4mph we reached in 1.7miles . Its a Merkur not a Cossie but beating that Speed is an aim later this year.

 

[MADRod]

Went to a rolling road session today. My Tuner M.A.Developments was testing out the EFR 9180 Turbo using Pump fuel on an EVO.
Usually the Cossie makes more Power than the EVO on the same Turbo so I was interested as in would be an indication of the Power on my new road engine.
The graph is below 808.7 bhp & 664.7ft-lb @ 2.5 bar on a 1.1 housing. I will be using the 1.4 housing & 2.8 bar of boost :bigsmile:.

My own engine made 809.3bhp on the same rollers @ 2.8bar & using race fuel on a massive gt42 turbo :embarrest:. This is on a different planet & it spooled an incredible 1200 rpm sooner than mine. It will pass 900 on race fuel thats for sure. Cant wait it should be ballistic on the road. Will still use the GT42 for Topspeed runs we may see 1000bhp @ 3.2bar on that judging from these results.
It shows progress over a 7 year period if you stick at it very expensive but rewarding.

 

[MADRod]

Been doing a bit of research into DBW (Electronic Throttle) lots out there for single throttle bodies but most seem to go back to cable for ITB's.
However my pals at Jenvey have a suitable set-up or should i say will have because its not launched for a week or two.
Needs a big motor to drive 4 throttles. When asked if it would fit my application the reply was we will make it fit

.
They dont do the pedal control but there are a few companies that do but almost all in the States. .
The Jenvey is different to the other systems I looked at:-






Am I going to do this well im not sure yet but ive time to research it & will at least know what im not going to fit if i decide against it

.

 

[davalav]

Judging by all this awesome stuff you get hold of, you could end the worlds current financial ruin!

Nice progress and an interesting update. Didn't think it was worth having ITB's on a turbo charged engine. Sounds silly, as I don't really fully understand, but I think I asked this question a while ago. I see Supra's making 1200hp but they don't appear to run multiple throttle bodies. Then again they're straight 6 engines. Do the ITB's help with the lack of displacement? if that makes sense?

 

[MADRod]

Judging by all this awesome stuff you get hold of, you could end the worlds current financial ruin!

Nice progress and an interesting update. Didn't think it was worth having ITB's on a turbo charged engine. Sounds silly, as I don't really fully understand, but I think I asked this question a while ago. I see Supra's making 1200hp but they don't appear to run multiple throttle bodies. Then again they're straight 6 engines. Do the ITB's help with the lack of displacement? if that makes sense?

You wont make more Power on the ITB'S its about throttle response. We recently did ITB's on an EVO the response was a lot better than a single throttle. On such a Powerfull engine everything helps. If all we wanted was Power would use Bigger Turbo, bigger Ports & wilder cams but in the real world you need to drive it so everything is a compromise between Power & Drivability.

 

[old-git]

Couldn't have said it better myself, so I won't

 

[MADRod]

Little update. The Loom has been made. The pics below show the bare loom as it arrived then around 50% finished its now complete. The other pic is the CDI sub loom to drive the 4 ignition coils. Ive also modded a Seat Leon electronic pedal to fit the YB but not had time to fit it. It connects directly too the loom & can be seen in the 2nd pic..
Still not collected my bits from Vibration Free must try to do that next week. Theres no time when your a pensioner & im afraid :amuse: my Garden is far higher up the pecking order than the car at this time of year .
The Pistons have still not arrived its now 15 weeks & im not a happy bunny but i want the best so chewing there face off is not an option a they do produce the best.

 

[MADRod]

Some are interested in techy bits so here is the W/Diagram for the Loom. Its designed to plug directly into the existing car Loom which has become a bit complicated over the 17 years of the cars development so its essential i keep it up to date so fault finding is easy.

The engine now has twin knock sensors & twin Map sensors to allow Boost Pressures up to 60psi which may be required to crack 1000bhp.

 

[MADRod]

Heres a few bits after balancing.

The front Rattler Pulley (Harmonic Balancer)- One off item to suit my crank.







The Crank - Made by Derek Kiddle Racing to withstand 1000+bhp its strong not light. double 'D' front end & 9mm Porsche keyway to stop the probs we had with the pulley breaking the tiny YB keyway & the pulley comeing loose.



Arrow Rods - 8mm Longer to Madevelopments spec & only available to MAD.



The Flywheel- Cant say too much as this is part of a secret squirell Assy. Only allowed to show this part of the Flywheel Assy.



Its a sobering thought that parts above cost £5400. Its starts to show the cost of developing a 1000bhp engine & giving it a chance of holding together. Still trying to get my head around £1000 for the head studs & nuts at £23 each .

Still waiting for the Pistons from CP in the States.

The car is to be removed from its tomb where its been for 34 months next week & placed in the work area .

Next job is mods to the drysump system & fitting the dbw pedal in the car.
More updates as they happen.
[/quote]

 

[TCJBOLDIE]

I am stunned and have nothing but admiration for your determination and drive to have the absolute best regardless of the shear amount of $$$$$$$$$$$$ needed/
spent to achieve your dream.

I thought that T9 man had an obsessive attention to detail streak but Rod you are on another level/planet altogether

PS no offence intended to both of you.

 

[T9 man]

None taken buddy

 

[MADRod]

I am stunned and have nothing but admiration for your determination and drive to have the absolute best regardless of the shear amount of $$$$$$$$$$$$ needed/
spent to achieve your dream.

I thought that T9 man had an obsessive attention to detail streak but Rod you are on another level/planet altogether

PS no offence intended to both of you.

Im at a different stage of life to T9 ( I assume hes not an oap )
I have built my life so can afford to spend money as i have everything i want with no mortgage & other things to pay for.
I was 58 when i announced to the Cossie world i was going to create the fastest one ever & hold that title for 10 years. It was not well received as there were some big players around but in 7 months the record was with my car (201.8mph) & 9 years 7 months later the time run that day has not been beaten we have pushed it on (206.1mph) & thats the aim to have another crack as a 70th birthday present.
Give T9 a few more years i had not started at his age so anythings possible given he has many years head start. Again im assuming T9 is under 50.

 

[TCJBOLDIE]

Rod it's your money that you have worked hard for and if you can afford to do it then give it your all as you don't want to end up in a nursing home with unrealized dreams and filled with regret and you sure as hell can't take it with you
Go for it and I and a few on here will be riding along with you.

 

[MADRod]

Still getting on with a few details.
Needed some 1-off Ally Panels & i found a company in Germany where i could download software to design & Specify the Panels. Simply Clicked buy & they arrived 10 days later. Then I wired them up & they are ready to fit in car. If you have Autocad skills its a doddle & full pricing is given for each stage very impressed.

Panels as they arrived.





Wired up ready to fit to car loom.



One of the panels is fitted to the Amplifier facia so it can be fitted into the car.



Pleased with the results the company even sent me a packet of 'Gummi- Bears'.

 

[T9 man]

Nice one young Rod

 

[MADRod]

Hi
Not posted for a while. Suffered a TGA about 3 months ago. Found in a confused state, fortunately I don't remember anything & have 17 missing hours. Woke up in Hospital without a clue how I got there. Told to take it easy for a few months the car went on the back burner while I recovered. Feel OK now & back to normal so will start on the car in mid November.

 

[andy206]

good to hear your back with us rod, followed this car closely for the past few years

 

[T9 man]

Glad to hear your ok Rod, please heed the doctors advice and chill as much as you can buddy

 

[old-git]

Just looked up TGA - Transient global amnesia - and that is some scary brown stuff! Glad that you have recovered and that it is unlikely (according to this site - http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...global-amnesia/basics/definition/con-20032746 ) to happen again.

You never know what is around the next corner, which is why I prefer drag racing

 

[HDi fun]

You're looking at similar BHP figures to a British Rail Class 37 diesel:electric locomotive here!! From two and a bit litres

Nice work