claymore
The Torque Meister
Right then, has anyone got any idea on how the plumbing would go on a supercharger and turbo setup?
turbo and supercharger
- Thread starter claymore
- Start date
HDi fun
TC ModFather
DO you mean both together?
claymore
The Torque Meister
Ohh Yes
mate no idea but the sound of a twin charged engine is better than a v8 imo
but this may give a little insight ??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_charging
but this may give a little insight ??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_charging
claymore
The Torque Meister
so does the boost from the supercharger go straight into the inlet of the turbo, or I'm I being stupid,
has anyone got a diagram of how it works.
has anyone got a diagram of how it works.
MasterAuron
Very Senior Member
The ones I've seen work off a valve using a roots charger. At low revs the supercharger air is directed from the supercharger to the engine, then as the revs build the valve gradually switches in the turbo, until it takes over completely. It's non-sequential too IIRC.
Then there's the sequential type, in which you'd have the supercharger feed the turbo as you said above.
Tbh, I can't see the point of having it over a good sequential twin turbo setup. Just unecessary hassle imo.
Then there's the sequential type, in which you'd have the supercharger feed the turbo as you said above.
Tbh, I can't see the point of having it over a good sequential twin turbo setup. Just unecessary hassle imo.
claymore
The Torque Meister
Not if your three quarters of the way there, and just happen to have a turbocharger lying around...lol
HDi fun
TC ModFather
I think that you'd have the supercharger upstream of the turbo, as you say, ie. the supercharger fed directly from the airbox.
In the early days of supercharging or turbo-supercharging the term intercooler was coined to describe cooling devices that were present in-between each stage of sequential supercharging, hence 'inter'.
Based on this, and if there is room to do so (and subject to other concerns such as very long pipe runs) you could potentially go thus:
airbox(filter) - MAF - supercharger - intercooler#1 - turbocharger - intercooler#2 - inlet manifold.
Whether this is practical with a car engine I don't know. In rail traction and aircraft the engines generally run at steady revs for extended periods so lag and delayed response is not an issue. I imagine that with a car this could lead to lots of pumping losses and a very laggy pedal response due to the sheer length of the pipework.
Having said that, VW has a 1368cc petrol engine that uses supercharging and turbocharging which yields something like 170bhp!! I have no idea exactly how it's plumbed but clearly this is a very effective way of getting an engine to punch above its weight.
The engine even makes an appearance in the new Skoda Superb (although not yet in the UK), which is a heavy car. By all accounts it's disturbingly lively. I imagine that VW has had to build the four cylinder engine to the same industrial strength as would be found in a naturally aspirated 3.0 V6 to cope with the torque it's pushing out.
In terms of efficiency and packaging it has to be admired. I have yet to drive one so cannot comment personally.
In the early days of supercharging or turbo-supercharging the term intercooler was coined to describe cooling devices that were present in-between each stage of sequential supercharging, hence 'inter'.
Based on this, and if there is room to do so (and subject to other concerns such as very long pipe runs) you could potentially go thus:
airbox(filter) - MAF - supercharger - intercooler#1 - turbocharger - intercooler#2 - inlet manifold.
Whether this is practical with a car engine I don't know. In rail traction and aircraft the engines generally run at steady revs for extended periods so lag and delayed response is not an issue. I imagine that with a car this could lead to lots of pumping losses and a very laggy pedal response due to the sheer length of the pipework.
Having said that, VW has a 1368cc petrol engine that uses supercharging and turbocharging which yields something like 170bhp!! I have no idea exactly how it's plumbed but clearly this is a very effective way of getting an engine to punch above its weight.
The engine even makes an appearance in the new Skoda Superb (although not yet in the UK), which is a heavy car. By all accounts it's disturbingly lively. I imagine that VW has had to build the four cylinder engine to the same industrial strength as would be found in a naturally aspirated 3.0 V6 to cope with the torque it's pushing out.
In terms of efficiency and packaging it has to be admired. I have yet to drive one so cannot comment personally.
Last edited:
claymore
The Torque Meister
thought about the intercooler, so I think I'll use the nitrous to cool the charge between the two chargers.
claymore
The Torque Meister
thought about that, I think I'll use my nitrous to cool the charge between the two chargers, that way i should still have just about enough room.
HDi fun
TC ModFather
I didn't know that nitrous had a cooling effect. What about cooling when the nitrous is not being used?
claymore
The Torque Meister
should be able to get away without it in normal use i would have thought, just the one intercooler after the turbo.
HDi fun
TC ModFather
Fair enough. I suppose you could always revisit the situation if it ran hot and detonation became a problem.
AFAIK nitrous itself is not combustible so there should be no risk of fire when it becomes compressed and heated by the turbocharger.
You probably will want to fit additional oil cooling to cope with the heat loads the turbo and supercharger create.
claymore
The Torque Meister
quite common to spray the nitrous onto the ic (cryojenic cooling) and it's common to spray into the turbo housing to spin the turbo up to get rid of lag.
MasterAuron
Very Senior Member
Yeah man, the solenoids often get frosty if you look lol. You will get cold burns or whatever you call it if get in the way of the jet. I'll try and get a picture from a mates solenoids.
MasterAuron
Very Senior Member
HDi fun
TC ModFather
This is quite an interesting point.
I'm guessing that the cooling effect is caused as a result of the nitrous being contained in a pressurised container and it's the depressurization that causes cooling?
Somewhere I read something about negative pressure turbocharging which, although not intended to reduce charge temperature, it did happen to be a beneficial side effect.
Research required, I think.
I'm guessing that the cooling effect is caused as a result of the nitrous being contained in a pressurised container and it's the depressurization that causes cooling?
Somewhere I read something about negative pressure turbocharging which, although not intended to reduce charge temperature, it did happen to be a beneficial side effect.
Research required, I think.
MasterAuron
Very Senior Member
Lol what do you do for a living HDi? You have an admirable thirst for knowledge. I just know what it does, and how it works enough to be able to use it. Further in-depth knowledge doesn't make it work any better to me. But I suppose that's why you're more intellegent than I lol.
claymore
The Torque Meister
^^^^^^^exactly what he said.............lol ^^^^^^^^^^^^
pgarner
TC ModFather
never heard of using nitrous itself as cooling aid, have however heard of using CO2 as cooling aids to be sprayed on the intercooler / inlet manifolds etc to lower the intake temps.
is the cooling not caused by the liquid turning back into the gas. same way as a fridge/freezer works
is the cooling not caused by the liquid turning back into the gas. same way as a fridge/freezer works
Similar threads
Similar threads
-
-
-
-
Turbocharging non-turbo Ford Mondeo MK4 2.0L Ecoboost Petrol 2011
- Started by Thundexxd
- Replies: 1
-
-
