Subaru Or m3 - Whats ones best for track

[roryp15]

Hi all. Some of you may remeber me from a while ago - used to drive a golf gt tdi 110 bhp and was dieing to get it to 200 bhp. Well i ended up selling the car and buying a E46 BMW 316I just as a daily car and decided i will use another car for the track AND drags. I have two cars in mind.

BMW E36 M3 EVOLUTION

SUBARU IMPREZA WRX ( around 1996 ish model as i prefer the shape )


Now i know both these cars have a fair amount of power to start with but im looking for more

If i was to get the m3 i would be looking to put in a chevy LS6 5.7 V8 engine for most of the power then just do other mods to support it eg, exhaust, suspension, brakes.

If i was to get the subaru i would be looking to put in a bigger turbo, intercooler, injectors, fuel pump, oil pump, air intake and what ever else needed to match the 400 bhp of the v8 that would be in the m3.

So out of them two cars what do you think would be more suited to both the track and the odd quater mile aswell?

Thanks :toung:

 

[lutonmatt]

the scooby would be better handling due to 4wd for both track and drag

but i dont think you can beat a nice ls v8 i have the ls1 in my trans am with alot of ls6 bits on plus a lot more race stuff and that goes like stink not going to be much that can keep up would kill scoobys and most skylines

but its all down to putting the power down

 

[roryp15]

At first i was going to put in the LS1 it produces 350 bhp standard does it not ? But decided for the LS6 as its 400 bhp standard .

Im looking to buy the engine brand new from britishamericanengines

LS6 5.7 litre – 400 bhp £4400

SO £4400 for the engine then its around another 1600 for Ancillaries and ECM system.

So a 400 bhp M3 should have more than enough power for the track and drags ?

Out of intrest whats your quater mile and 0-60 - lutonmatt

 

[lutonmatt]

pass have not had mine up the strip was going to do it this year but did not fix the gear box in time and now i have sold it so wont do it next year but one of the reasons was cos the back axle is on its way did not want to go up the pod and snap it
but it should be good for a mid to low 11 sec maybe quicker if it goes good

the ealry ls1's kick out 320bhp but a lot of people put the ls6 intake and cam in and that adds a few hp
but i have a 90mm fast intake a 90mm umi t/b a fast road/race comp cam and stuff to make the rest stroger plus a few other little bits

next thing i was going to do was a set of ls6 heads and 3in dual exhausts that should of kicked the bhp up to near 500

 

[roryp15]

Would the ls6 be a straight swap for a e36 m3.

Eg pull out BMW engine and put in chevy engine or is there a few more things needing done.

How much did your swap cost? Roughy.

 

[BAD63R]

Sounds like a great project but would it not be better dropping the LS6 (I thought the LS7 had 420 standard? the one thats bord to a 6.2?) Into a smaller car with less weight that can take the power? It wouldn't take much surly to get the Scooby the same power to weight ratio as the BMW V8?

So why not think along the lines as the chappy in the following link? :-

Click here for link.

When looking at the stats of the 2 cars, the BMW is over 200KG heavier than the Coupe.

There are some vids on You Tube aswell.

 

[lutonmatt]

that is one mean fast astra he has there now

and nearly everything you want to know is on ls1tech all about all the ls engines

but if i was going to put that engine in the bmw i would do engine box rear diff brakes ect then the rest that comes with that no way the diff from a m3 would cope the one on the trans am does not cope and it has the sl1 from the factory

but mine has the ls1 lump from standard and then all teh race bits the bloke before me put in he spent about 5-6k (uk pounds) on doing the engine up

will post some pics and vids up in a while

 

[turbonutter69]

Why go for an engine swap? What engine is in the M3 evolution? Is it the 3.2?

 

[BAD63R]

The M3 Evo only has 321bhp in a much too heavy chassis. My car with the power to weight is has did a 0-60 in 5.9 seconds (proven) and the M3 Evo does it in 5.2 so considering the BMW has nearly 100bhp more than me, it shouldn't be so slow. I aggree with what Roryp15 wants to do as the chassis of BM's are quite strong. But considering the standard normally asperated LS2 engine is 400bhp standatd and capable of being taken to 1200bhp no probs, I think I know what engine i'd use. You probably pay about the same for the Subaru and the LS1 or 2 engine. Thats if you were to go for the newer EJ25 2.5 Turbo engine thats in the new STi's, but you would still have more horses for your money going for the LS engine.

 

[turbonutter69]

Was just a question because I've seen Bmw's with stupid Bhp on a Bmw engine.

 

[BAD63R]

Oh no, not disputing your question mate But yeh i've seen a couple of BMW 3 series one of which was a compact version, and both had 8 series 5.0 engines in and they shifted like #!#!#!#!#!#! of a shovel lol.

 

[turbonutter69]

I saw a 328 a while back running a supercharger and pushing 400 od Bhp on standard internals.

 

[roryp15]

thanks for al the views so far

I was thinking the other night - why start with an M3?

Theres BMW 316, 318, 320, 323 going around with just over the 100K mark for less than 1K to start with.

Then ill rip the engine out, brakes, suspension then fit the new stuff in it - i would have to do it to the M3 anyways so why not start with a cheaper car ?

So the BMW with a LS1, LS2, LS6? engine in it would be alot quicker than a standard subaru ?

 

[BAD63R]

To give you a rough idea check these stats out. I used a BMW 318 Compact as the example.

318 with 400bhp LS2 engine.

Power at Flywheel (BHP) : 400
Weight without Driver (KG) : 1175
Power to Weight Ratio (BHP Per Ton) : 345.89
0 - 60 (Secs) : 3.76
0 - 100 (Secs) : 8.41
60 - 100 (Secs) : 4.66
Quarter Mile (Secs) : 11.96
Terminal Speed (MPH) : 119.22
Drag Strip Quarter Mile (Secs) : 11.86
Drag Strip Terminal Speed (MPH) : 120.59


Subaru Impreza EJ25 2.5 Turbo tuned to the same power.

Power at Flywheel (BHP) : 400
Weight without Driver (KG) : 1410
Power to Weight Ratio (BHP Per Ton) : 284.21
0 - 60 (Secs) : 3.73
0 - 100 (Secs) : 9.31
60 - 100 (Secs) : 5.58
Quarter Mile (Secs) : 12.33
Terminal Speed (MPH) : 115.08
Drag Strip Quarter Mile (Secs) : 11.93
Drag Strip Terminal Speed (MPH) : 118.95


You get far better power to weight ratio on the BMW and it wont cost anywhere near as much to do as scoobys cost quite a bit to get over 400bhp. Plus, theres is nothing in it as far as the 0-60 speed goes but look at the difference of the BMW on the 0-100 , so doing the BMW conversion leaves your wallet with a few extra £££'s to spend getting more power fom the LS2 engine (bolt on supercharger knock it up to 500bhp )

 

[roryp15]

great info BAD63R thanks for that

So i can get something like this http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...page/2&anchor=advert200949347366082&logcode=p

or similar?

The car will then be stripped : interior, engine, doors, wheels etc.

Any rust or any sign of damage that was unseen during first inspection will be fixed up.

Then a full bodykit ( seen a few i like) will be placed on then a full respray.

2 Bucket seats will be placed in and the interior cleaned up / any worn bits will be replaced

From there any mechanical problems will be fixed up and sorted.

After that - I dont know yet haha!

As you can see im replacing slot of the car so the millage its self shoudlnt really matter or should i still look for a low millage car?

Things ill be needing

The engine its self ( LS6 6.0 V8 )
Starter motor and bolt kit
Alternator, bracket and bolt kit
Pulley belt and idler
Tensioner belt drive & bolt
Harness and ECM
Electronic throttle peddle.
Sensor package
Air filter

All this should come to £6040 + VAT

http://www.britishamericanengines.co.uk/ls_engines/default.asp

Clutch
Brakes
Gearbox
Exhaust

What else would i need? Would the car be able to old the engine and not " break " if i put the foot down

Does the engine fit right in?

Anything else i need to know ?

Thanks folks

 

[BAD63R]

Have a look at sopme of the vids here and you'll get an idea of what you need to do but basically, cut the front of the car off and cut most of the tunnel out and fit your engine and box and then put it back together so to speak. Wont be an easy conversion I wouldn't have thought. But i'd still drop the LS engine into something lighter than a BMW.