McLaren F1 has no ABS shocker

[obi_waynne]

I didn't realise but the McLaren F1 does not have ABS, or pretty much any other driving gadget.

Do you think this is a good move?
Do real drivers need brakes or ABS? (I just know this is going to be taken out of context!)
Would you be happy without ABS on your car?

 

[turbonutter69]

Abs doesn't bother me so I'd be happy enough not having it.

 

[pgarner]

ABS isnt really required for most driving if you thinking ahead. ive only had mine kick in twice and both were in snow where its better not to have it

 

[turbonutter69]

ABS isnt really required for most driving if you thinking ahead. ive only had mine kick in twice and both were in snow where its better not to have it

Mine kicks in everytime I brake and go over a grate.

 

[obi_waynne]

Thats not grate! :toung:

 

[turbonutter69]

I know it does actually wind me up a bit. The Focus is the only car I've had that does it too?

 

[pgarner]

yours must be very sensitive TN

(ignoring waynnes little joke)

 

[HDi fun]

I prefer to have ABS and all the other stuff as well. If you really mess up big time it gives you a fighting chance to get out unmarked. In normal driving none of these things interfere.

It's a matter of degree - how many of your would also like to reintroduce cross ply tyres and drum brakes all round?

 

[CitizenErazed]

I thought a lot of these super high speed cars didn't have any of that stuff to save weight. It's handy but not essential, useful to know if you have it or not though, I had it in my rovers and didn't realise it wasn't in my corsa. I had someone cut me up whilst I was traveling at speed, they were on the otherside of the road and turning off to a road on my side, they turned when I was almost on top of them doing 60 and turned so slow they were barely moving, I slammed on the brakes, emergency stop style, only to THEN discover I didn't have ABS as I was expecting, wasn't the best time for that little surprise -.- I did some very pretty fish tailing before I managed to swerve round the back of him in the end almost sideways and just miss the cars on the other side of the road. Wish I had hit him though, I'd have loved to have met him face to face >.>

Why would you want to reintroduce drum brakes? Shall we also bring back wind up handles to start the cars?

 

[HDi fun]

I don't want to reintroduce either drum brakes or crossply tyres.

I'll take every conceivable safety device offered without exception.

It's just a suggestion to those who think that ABS and all other safety devices are needless to see how far they want to go. Wooden wheels and solid tyres perhaps?

 

[MasterAuron]

HDi, but ABS in a way is taking control of the car from the driver imo, whereas the disc brakes are an improvement of technology.

Two of my Punto's have never had ABS, and I've locked up once in my Mk2 in the wet and that's it. I'm binning it in the GT. I want I car I can drive as much as possible within reason, not one that drives for me.

No, real drivers do not need ABS. It's breeding a generation of cotton-wool wrapped drivers, that have every safety device possible in their car, so when the jump in one they actually have some control over, they can't even drive it. Citizen's post, for example.

I don't think safety devices are needless, but neither are they needed.

 

[CitizenErazed]

I can drive a car without ABS, what happened was because I thought I had it so automatically relied on it. After I discovered I didn't have it I drove just fine.

I'm all for not taking control away from drivers, thats why I'm not a fan of automatics at all, but at certain levels, things like ABS are only not used because A) weight saving or because then the driver can claim they're better then other drivers.

 

[MasterAuron]

things like ABS are only not used because A) weight saving or because then the driver can claim they're better then other drivers.

Nope. The ABS likes to play tricks sometimes. And there's nothing wrong with reason "A)" or reason "".

To add, I would never go to the extent of removing it from a normal car. The car I am removing it from is track and drag based and will never be used in the wet and very rarely in anger on the roads.

 

[turbonutter69]

HDi, but ABS in a way is taking control of the car from the driver imo, whereas the disc brakes are an improvement of technology.

Two of my Punto's have never had ABS, and I've locked up once in my Mk2 in the wet and that's it. I'm binning it in the GT. I want I car I can drive as much as possible within reason, not one that drives for me.

No, real drivers do not need ABS. It's breeding a generation of cotton-wool wrapped drivers, that have every safety device possible in their car, so when the jump in one they actually have some control over, they can't even drive it. Citizen's post, for example.

I don't think safety devices are needless, but neither are they needed.

Agreed and agreed.

 

[HDi fun]

Regardless of how good your driving is you cannot modulate the brakes on each wheel independently when the whole lot is controlled by one pedal.

Electronic brake force distribution helps this to a degree but apparently it's never fitted to cars without ABS.

Like emergency brake assist, which detects sudden accelerator release and immediate brake application and treats it as an emergency, thus applying full brake force immediately.

ABS can play tricks with light braking (the Nissan was a bit touchy in this respect) with one wheel on a manhole cover but that's a small price to pay for the very rare occasions that you need a bit of extra assistance.

You'll all hate me for this but I think automatics are great. Especially the current crop of DSG type systems which are basiaclly clutchless manuals that can also select gears if you want them to do so.

 

[HDi fun]

I've just found this and it does add some weight to those of you who argue that ABS is not necessary. It's something I'd not considered previously.

http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffi...oper-steering-endangers-drivers-with-abs.html

 

[MasterAuron]

What ever do you mean? All my arguments carry their own weight!

Trust me ABS is nowhere near foolproof. Ask the drifters.

 

[HDi fun]

Blimey - I'm conceding some ground here


As for drifting it's something in which I don't indulge. Especially on the road. But I reckon I could put a high powered RWD car into a presentable oversteer induced powerslide without going near the brake pedal at all so the ABS would not come into it.

 

[turbonutter69]

But you need the brakes for chaining drifts. With ABS it would just correct the slide. Even with the slightest touch of the pedal.

 

[HDi fun]

I think 500lbft or raw torque fed to the rear via a live axle would be enough to change drifts without the brakes.

Anyway, if I was building a drift car then I'd obviously remove all the stability control programs, ABS included, as they have no place or role on a raw track car.

I think at the time The McLaren F1 road car was built ABS was banned from F1 anyway. Otherwise it might well have been thus equipped.

Do current F1 regs allow ABS?

 

[turbonutter69]

I think 500lbft or raw torque fed to the rear via a live axle would be enough to change drifts without the brakes.

Anyway, if I was building a drift car then I'd obviously remove all the stability control programs, ABS included, as they have no place or role on a raw track car.

I think at the time The McLaren F1 road car was built ABS was banned from F1 anyway. Otherwise it might well have been thus equipped.

Do current F1 regs allow ABS?

But my point is you'd need the brakes to maybe slow up a little mid drift. ABS would ruin the slide is all I meant buddy.

And F1 cars have traction control so why not ABS.

 

[HDi fun]

But my point is you'd need the brakes to maybe slow up a little mid drift. ABS would ruin the slide is all I meant buddy.

And F1 cars have traction control so why not ABS.

I agree, ABS would upset the slide but the stability program would stop you ever achieving one anyway. You can, of course, turn off the ESP, whereas the ABS and brake force distribution is permanently on.

F1 cars don't have full stability control. All they have is a push button 70mph limiter for the pit lane and a launch control program for the grid start. This is there, I imagine, to reduce the amount of grid start collision damage and early retirements from a young race.

Once under way I think it's purely down to the driver's right foot and some very sophisticated (but passive) transmission components.

I don't think they do have ABS but I will have to check. It's probably not necessary with the enormous, soft compound tyres.

 

[turbonutter69]

I'm almost sure they use TC.

 

[turbonutter69]

Ok I stand corrected i've just done a bit of research and it seems TC was banned from F1 in 2008.

 

[HDi fun]

I still think they have launch control for the grid start and the 70mph limiter for the pits.

 

[turbonutter69]

I still think they have launch control for the grid start and the 70mph limiter for the pits.

They have a limiter for the pit lane and i'm almost sure they have launch control as well. I haven't really watched it this season so i'm not fully up to date.

 

[HDi fun]

I've lost interest in F1. It used to be a mule for forthcoming road car technology. Now that it's all been banned road cars are more sophisticated than F1 cars, which kind of defeats the object of why F1 was devised in the first place.

 

[RobBentley]

I have no problem with ABS, but I wish there was an option to turn it off in the snow.

Reading quickly from the book... my car has ABS (Anti Lock Brakes), EBD (Electronic Brakeforce Distribution), ESP (Electronic Stability Programme), TCS (Traction Control System), EDL (Electronic Differential Locks), BAS (Brake Assist System) and 4motion (Perminant Torsen All-Wheel drive).

I'd not get rid of any of it. My peers take the piss and call it my "magic carpet" - but I don't care!!

There is a nice button to turn it all off, apart from the ABS, EDL and BAS which stays (and of course the 4motion). Shame there isn't a mode to kill the ABS (such as press and hold) would be good for in the snow.