Formula Yawn

I

indiaman

Track Warrior
Points
57
Location
Bangalore India
Car
Tata Marina diesel
Just saw Formula 1 at Albert Park, Melbourne, Though not as boring as the previous one, it still leaves a lot to be desired, I think they should change the tyre rules so that only one set of tyres is allowed for the whole race, this will make for more interesting racing. What do you guys think?
 
Too harsh - and dangerous if dry conditions deteriorate to wet.

Better to force 2 tyre changes.

I thought this was far better. Plenty of overtaking (Alonso being forced back to 20th-ish and fighting back to 4th whilst sucessfully fighting off Hamilton who was in a serious challenge after some phenomenal driving between Hamilton and Webber, cutting entire seconds off laps - 2.5s on one lap - due to new tyres and nothing in front).

Red Bull need to sort out their car - Vettel has lost a considerable number of points due to the spark plug in Bahrain and the brakes in Melbourne.

I though Schumacher struggled a bit with losing his front diffuser to Alonso's spin - he never really seemed to be in the race after that.

But, between the spin, the crash and the bump, as well as the challenge from Red Bull and McLaren at the end there, I certainly wouldn't call it dull. Maybe not overly spectacular, but certainly not dull.
 
To a degree, open wheel racing is always going to be like this. Especially at the speeds seen in F1. The cars just cant get too close to each other otherwise its game over.

Something like touring cars is always going to be more exciting because they can rub and bump without too much worry of spinning out and wrecking a 800k car.
 
"Too harsh - and dangerous if dry conditions deteriorate to wet.

Better to force 2 tyre changes."

I agree that the present F I tyre technology is such as to require frequent tyre changes Why not change it to NO tyre changes for an entire race?after all this rule- if enforced- will make the races more interesting. In any case I fail to see why it cannot be done.
I know that there is no comparison, but a Boeing 747 manages about 100 landings and take offs on one set of tyres--food for thought-
 
was better then the first race but not as good as last years

fuel needs to come back into play its all about how long the fuel will last not top speeds and times as much now
 
indiaman said:
"Too harsh - and dangerous if dry conditions deteriorate to wet.

Better to force 2 tyre changes."

I agree that the present F I tyre technology is such as to require frequent tyre changes Why not change it to NO tyre changes for an entire race?after all this rule- if enforced- will make the races more interesting. In any case I fail to see why it cannot be done.
I know that there is no comparison, but a Boeing 747 manages about 100 landings and take offs on one set of tyres--food for thought-
Click to expand...


One tyre would be as said too dangerous. Would you like to travel on a battered tyre at close to 200mph?
 
"One tyre would be as said too dangerous. Would you like to travel on a battered tyre at close to 200mph?"

My contention is: Why should a tyre be so fragile in its construction that it cannot last ONE race? Surely the manufacturers can make a tyre that lasts the race. Imagine how much better it would be to watch a race where all the cars did not have to pit and waste time doing so, it will simply be a race where the best driver wins.
_____
 
It's not the fact that the tyre is fragile. In all honesty it is far from fragile. The amount of stress and strain the tyres are put under is immense. They don't break or explode the just degrade and leave the rubber on the tarmac. To make them last one race would prob mean making the tyre massive.
 
My point is : If a fully loaded 450 ton monster Boeing 747 can get about 100 take offs and landings with one set of tyres, and go for another 100 similar cycles with the same tyres retreaded, then why can't the tyre boffins make a set of tyres for a 700lb F 1 Car that will go the distance of just ONE race without the tyres shredding , bursting, overheating,or coming off their rims!!!
 
"Still in a totally different league."

Yes, I agree with you, BUT why can't it be done?It is more than 100 years since John Boyd Dunlop invented the pneumatic tyre, and now we have tyres for F1 cars that last a few laps! ridiculous, to say the least!!
 
indiaman - the Boeing may well take off and land but it isnt doing it continuously. the tyre can cool down and recover their composure, dont see them having much chance to do this on racing lap.
they should bring back the refueling - was no need to take this out.
this race was quite good - so much better than Bahrain - frankly believe that the track at Bahrain is one of the main problems, it just doesnt allow for overtaking.
 
That was the problem Hamilton suffered - he *needed* new tyres, which is why he had to pit twice, and he'd pretty much destroyed his 3rd set in the attempt to catch Alonso.

Also consider that in terms of distance (probably also time in motion) 100 take off and landings is probably less than the F1 car covers, plus as others have said, high speed cornering induces a lot of stress.
 
I'm with india man on this. Yes the tyres are under a lot of stress and strain but surely a harder compound and thicker tread will help the tyre to last longer.

Whilst we are at it lets have a one engine per season without stripdown and rebuilds each race. It will force them to think about reliability and sort out the engineering standards of the teams.;)
 
"indiaman - the Boeing may well take off and land but it isnt doing it continuously. the tyre can cool down and recover their composure, dont see them having much chance to do this on racing lap."
FYI, the temperature of an airliners tyre at 35000 ft is around MINUS 55 to 60 degrees Celsius, this same tyre(without the benefit of heating) has to take the shock of landing at speeds approaching 200mph, from a total standstill, then accelerate to the landing speed, and when the brakes are applied the tyres get really HOT, the normal inflation pressures are around 200PSI, the tyres are tested to 800PSI! After all this abuse they still last for 100 take offs and 100 landings, and another similar cycle after retreading! Now you tell me if I am not justified in thinking that the entire F 1 tyre business is in my opinion a big scam.I remember that about 10 years ago a set of F1 tyres of size 315 45 17 used to cost 3000 UK Pounds, god knows what they cost now. No wonder F1 is so lucrative!
 
my view is... to get rid of traction control, ABS an any other electrical goodies. there alound 2 pit stops. one for fuel and one for tires. a engine has to last at least a session if not longer. i used to enjoy watching it but i personally think its gone down hill in the last 6 years or so.
 
I hate the new feul rules. It means people only change tyres once. Making people care for thier tyres means they can't race for a chunk of the game.

No more strategic play. Go out there shred your tyres, get new ones and defend for 30mins then tear up your new ones for the last few laps.

I watched F1 to see the peak of engineering, where they invented ABS and traction control ( I think). Not just lets go for a cruise around the track.

I think tha's another category it'd be nice to see that kind of endurance set up also. But not in F1.
 
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indiaman said:
"indiaman - the Boeing may well take off and land but it isnt doing it continuously. the tyre can cool down and recover their composure, dont see them having much chance to do this on racing lap."
FYI, the temperature of an airliners tyre at 35000 ft is around MINUS 55 to 60 degrees Celsius, this same tyre(without the benefit of heating) has to take the shock of landing at speeds approaching 200mph, from a total standstill, then accelerate to the landing speed, and when the brakes are applied the tyres get really HOT, the normal inflation pressures are around 200PSI, the tyres are tested to 800PSI! After all this abuse they still last for 100 take offs and 100 landings, and another similar cycle after retreading! Now you tell me if I am not justified in thinking that the entire F 1 tyre business is in my opinion a big scam.I remember that about 10 years ago a set of F1 tyres of size 315 45 17 used to cost 3000 UK Pounds, god knows what they cost now. No wonder F1 is so lucrative!
Click to expand...
Thanks, i did realise that an airliner is this cold outside, i have been on one a few times. I still stand by original comment that I believe that tyres on F1 cars suffer more continuous and constant abuse that those on aircraft.
Ref, your earlier comment, we agree to disagree.

Waynne - thicker tread, dont they have this on truck tyres and then after so long use they end up delaminating?
 
speedy said:
my view is... to get rid of traction control, ABS an any other electrical goodies. there alound 2 pit stops. one for fuel and one for tires. a engine has to last at least a session if not longer. i used to enjoy watching it but i personally think its gone down hill in the last 6 years or so.
Click to expand...

They got rid of Traction, ABS etc at the start of the 2009 season iirc.
 
Looking interesting for this morning, with Ferrari and McLaren at the back of the pack.

Might even be Fun (in the Dwarf Fortress sense)...


Edit:
Further thought about the "one tyre" proposal is that it would knock a few percentage points off the speed of the cars.

Hard compunds = less grip = need to go slower for safety

One tyre = wet tyre only = not slicks = more friction = slower

Both the above = worsened fuel consumption = more fuel for a race = more weight = slower.

As for the engines, remember they run at 2-3 times the revs. that any normal engine tends to. As such they tend to be short lived - metal fatigue and friction damage must be a pain.
 
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fully agree - well done - although seems maybe he was a bit naughty with Petrov. But disappointed at the way he couldnt seem to get it together to pass Sutil.
 
agree with tn69 - this is nonsense unless the writer of the article is dring their car constantly at 200mph+ then perhaps they can comment.
If you drive your own car hard, even for say 5 mins, if you check the tyres they will have warmed up considerably - continue abuse, even in a road car, will obviously be detrimental to the tyres and increase tyre wear.
 
You mean so we can have fiascos like the 2005 US GP again?

Just 6 cars raced that day. The others couldn't because the Michelins were not able to last the course.

Other than that, the cars running on Bridgestone branded tyres were uncompetetive - even the Ferraris.

Is it no surprise that the ban on new tyres mid-race lasted only 1 season?
 
WLBjork said:
You mean so we can have fiascos like the 2005 US GP again?

Just 6 cars raced that day. The others couldn't because the Michelins were not able to last the course.

Other than that, the cars running on Bridgestone branded tyres were uncompetetive - even the Ferraris.

Is it no surprise that the ban on new tyres mid-race lasted only 1 season?
Click to expand...
Yes I saw that race, what did it prove?only that the construction of the tyres were so fragile that they could not last on the famed Indy circuit, no wonder that the Americans have scant interest in Formula 1! Michelin America lost quite a few customers because of the bad and adverse publicity, one of the reasons they pulled out of F 1.
 
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