Speed limiting devices

[obi_waynne]

The latest thing from the Road safety cotton wool wrapping tree hugging brigade is fantastic!

The latest proposal is for all cars to be fitted with a speed limiter that forces the car to go at the speed of the road.:amazed:

What happens if you are overtaking and the car you overtake speeds up?

What about accelerating out of danger?

If you get a speeding ticket due to a system error will you still be prosecuted?

Will enforced speed limits cause more congestion? Perhaps if it means cars slowing up well before lower speed zones and could clog our road network.

We dont need to help brainless drivers keep their licences. They should be allowed to speed and get banned thus removing them from the food chain!

Time should be spend improving driving standards rather than chasing the premise that speed of any kind is dangerous.

 

[turbonutter69]

Agreed. But even if they did speed limit every car someone will know how to remove it so there will be more risk there. Education is the key. And the loons that wanna go speeding everywhere deserve to be banned so get them off the road an then us real drivers can enjoy the road...

 

[herb]

a limiter is not the answer but a black box that registers your speed could be. its your own fault if you end up with points then. but i would also incorporated a points system for drivers who dont drive up to the speed limit like you say get the incompetent 1's of the road and reduce road rage i would also like a tail gating points system in there aswell yet again reducing road rage and it would help reduce accidents
if they did really think about this system it could actually work

 

[gendox]

i like the black box idea maybe your insurance could be cheeper for younger people with one fitted or car would be cheeper and you would only use it if there was an accident so you arnt controlling people that speed limit idea is just not gonna happen there will be uproar they come out with more #!#!#!#! from there mouth than i do after a weekend binge of laxative and a night in curry town

 

[herb]

it could be quite funny seeing a ferrari trying to get away from a gwizz but im pretty sure that would soon wear off

i never really thought of the insurance side or young drivers but i suppose this system could be a plus on both counts

 

[gendox]

maybe somthing like if you have 2years or less only because im just over 2 years and think im a capable driver now, not the best and i like to go fast but do it when its apropriate.

 

[prevtec]

a limiter is not the answer but a black box that registers your speed could be. its your own fault if you end up with points then. but i would also incorporated a points system for drivers who dont drive up to the speed limit like you say get the incompetent 1's of the road and reduce road rage i would also like a tail gating points system in there aswell yet again reducing road rage and it would help reduce accidents
if they did really think about this system it could actually work

not been smart with you here mate, but would you put a black box in your car??
these are the things that get you cheaper insurance am i right??
why, so when you need to overtake someone or get out of trouble (waynne) that your stung, id refuse to have 1, and think their a load of ,,,,, just to save a few pound

the answer to safer roads is
better training schools, not black boxes, speed traps or any of that nonsense

 

[prevtec]

The latest thing from the Road safety cotton wool wrapping tree hugging brigade is fantastic!

The latest proposal is for all cars to be fitted with a speed limiter that forces the car to go at the speed of the road.:amazed:

What happens if you are overtaking and the car you overtake speeds up?

What about accelerating out of danger?

If you get a speeding ticket due to a system error will you still be prosecuted?

Will enforced speed limits cause more congestion? Perhaps if it means cars slowing up well before lower speed zones and could clog our road network.

We dont need to help brainless drivers keep their licences. They should be allowed to speed and get banned thus removing them from the food chain!

Time should be spend improving driving standards rather than chasing the premise that speed of any kind is dangerous.

thats like 2 artic trucks trying to overtake 1 another
redicoulous isnt it??

 

[HDi fun]

OK, now how do we go about monitoring the 20 million or so black boxes that have been fitted throughout the country's fleet?

This will never work.

 

[herb]

not been smart with you here mate, but would you put a black box in your car??
these are the things that get you cheaper insurance am i right??
why, so when you need to overtake someone or get out of trouble (waynne) that your stung, id refuse to have 1, and think their a load of ,,,,, just to save a few pound

the answer to safer roads is
better training schools, not black boxes, speed traps or any of that nonsense

i dont mean just in 1 car for cheap insurance mate i mean every car in the country has 1 and tracked by gps take for example when you come to a slow driver doing 40mph on a 60 mph road he will get a notification that he is going to slow either speed up or get points if he doesnt speed up within a set time limit he gets the points and a fine (helps get rid of the idiots) meanwhile you are the driver behind him you over take him with say a 15-20mph leeway on the 60mph speed limit so you can do 75-80mph just to give you a safe overtaking speed and give the cars behind a chance to overtake aswell then you come back down to 60 mph

and yes if they could do a black box system along the lines im thinking i would have 1 it would deter me from my spirited sunday drives down the a and b roads and to start doing trackdays

 

[HDi fun]

As far as I'm aware there's no mandatory minimum speed limit legislation in this country so you'd have to re-write the Road Traffic Act immediately.

 

[prevtec]

OK, now how do we go about monitoring the 20 million or so black boxes that have been fitted throughout the country's fleet?

This will never work.

it wont either, would you allow for 1 to be installed in your car??

 

[Se7eN]

The Road Safety Campaigners tried the same thing with motorbikes a couple of years back it was a big story in motorcycle news for about three months. Basically all the motorcycling organisations banded together and proved how stupid it would be to put something like that on a motorcycle.

Can you imagine going round a bend leaned over and suddenly the throttle snaps shut on you! Immediate high side into the nearest solid object!

Apparently the so called "safety campaigners" had neglected to realise this little problem.

 

[herb]

As far as I'm aware there's no mandatory minimum speed limit legislation in this country so you'd have to re-write the Road Traffic Act immediately.

well it wouldnt have to be done immediately cause a system like this would take along time to set up but tbh mate i really think their should be a minimum speed limit cause slow driver like these are more of a hazard than someone speeding imo

 

[prevtec]

i dont mean just in 1 car for cheap insurance mate i mean every car in the country has 1 and tracked by gps take for example when you come to a slow driver doing 40mph on a 60 mph road he will get a notification that he is going to slow either speed up or get points if he doesnt speed up within a set time limit he gets the points and a fine (helps get rid of the idiots) meanwhile you are the driver behind him you over take him with say a 15-20mph leeway on the 60mph speed limit so you can do 75-80mph just to give you a safe overtaking speed and give the cars behind a chance to overtake aswell then you come back down to 60 mph

and yes if they could do a black box system along the lines im thinking i would have 1 it would deter me from my spirited sunday drives down the a and b roads and to start doing trackdays

well it is good for the slow drivers, i see your point as these drivers do cause accidents

 

[HDi fun]

A minimum speed limit would be very dangerous indeed if it forced bad drivers to drive faster than the speeds at which they can cope with what's going on around them.

Sadly there's no easy way to get 'em off the roads. And they generally think they're very safe drivers because of their low speeds. How it is that hesitation and timidity can be considered safe is beyond me. If they cannot determine that it's safe to proceed at a junction how on earth are they going to perceive a developing hazard situation in a timely fashion?

Sadly, the crap drivers are here to stay. You just have to think for them.

 

[obi_waynne]

I've been thinking about this and come up with a possible solution.

Perhaps if your car beeps louder and louder at you when you exceed the limit.

This allows the driver to retain full control and just makes it annoying if you drive at excessive speeds. If insurance companies gave a discount for this I would probably agree to having a BEEPER installed.

 

[turbonutter69]

I've been thinking about this and come up with a possible solution.

Perhaps if your car beeps louder and louder at you when you exceed the limit.

This allows the driver to retain full control and just makes it annoying if you drive at excessive speeds. If insurance companies gave a discount for this I would probably agree to having a BEEPER installed.

I'd agree to have one installed but once installed i'd rip the speaker out of the thing.....lol

 

[HDi fun]

I suppose we'd have to embed the beeper's control system into the ECU so that any attempt to disable or mute it would cause the engine to go into limp home mode.

I still think this would be dangerous if the beeping noise distracted the driver who was hell bent on carrying on at high speed.

 

[turbonutter69]

I suppose we'd have to embed the beeper's control system into the ECU so that any attempt to disable or mute it would cause the engine to go into limp home mode.

I still think this would be dangerous if the beeping noise distracted the driver who was hell bent on carrying on at high speed.

It would aggrivate me after a while I must say.

 

[Twamgl3]

As far as I'm aware there's no mandatory minimum speed limit legislation in this country so you'd have to re-write the Road Traffic Act immediately.

The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 gives Highway Authorities the power to implement a minimum speed restriction on a section of the highway if they see fit, but like you state in a later post minimum speed restrictions mean that some drivers are forced to drive at a speed they're not comfortable with.

 

[old-git]

A minimum speed limit would be very dangerous indeed if it forced bad drivers to drive faster than the speeds at which they can cope with what's going on around them.

Sadly there's no easy way to get 'em off the roads. And they generally think they're very safe drivers because of their low speeds. How it is that hesitation and timidity can be considered safe is beyond me. If they cannot determine that it's safe to proceed at a junction how on earth are they going to perceive a developing hazard situation in a timely fashion?

Sadly, the crap drivers are here to stay. You just have to think for them.

Treat every driver as an idiot and you won't go far wrong

 

[HDi fun]

Treat every driver as an idiot and you won't go far wrong

I do adopt that approach and it works. Just do the thinking bit for them. FOr example, don't invite someone to cross your path into the line of opposing traffic. Many will just go without a second glance to their left for oncoming traffic.. If you're going to do this you MUST complete the whole observe, assess, decision process for them.

Don't you find though, OG, that over the years you develop (as I have) additional perceptory senses. Anticipation grows into prediction, prophecy and sometimes heresy! You know what they're gonna do long before there's any concrete evidence to support the next fumbling blunder at junction or roundabout.

And then you get caught out like I did on 23rd December by some absolute MORON leaving a T junction turning right onto the road I was on, an then proceeds to drive on the wrong side straight at me.

6pm, pitch dark, no streetlights.

What's worst of all? He/She didn't even have his/her f***in lights on!!!! That would have given me a few seconds extra to anticipate that they weren't planning to stop at the junction.

I was extremely fortunate than the road was clear of other traffic and was able to take evasive action. This is only the second time I've had to react that severely in twenty years and several hundred thousand miles of driving.

I hope to god he'd been drinking all day and was five times over the limit. If that was done by a sober driver then I'm getting really scared.

So, yes, treat 'em all like idiots. Just bear in mind that some can be such supremely rehearsed idiots that the rest of us cannot possibly comprehend the magnitude of their stupidity.

 

[prevtec]

I've been thinking about this and come up with a possible solution.

Perhaps if your car beeps louder and louder at you when you exceed the limit.

This allows the driver to retain full control and just makes it annoying if you drive at excessive speeds. If insurance companies gave a discount for this I would probably agree to having a BEEPER installed.

this is installed in some minibuses from japan before been shipped to ireland, it beeps when he goes over 60 mph and man their annoying
this is a good idea

 

[HDi fun]

DOes it solve the problem of poor driving in general?

NO

 

[stamford]

I have the solution!

Retest everyone. Every driver must do 5 laps of a racetrack within a set laptime, then 5 more with other drivers in their own cars. If they fail they do not get a licence or bust their own car in the process. That way the only drivers on the road are the switched on ones who know:

1. How to drive through the gears and down again.
2. How to handle a car.
3. How to control your speed.
4. How to judge distances.
5. How to overtake.
6. How to brake and look after your brakes.
7. How to enter and exit a bend.
8. Obervations and awareness of other drivers.

I digress black boxes are for the nanny state and there will be a rebellion if this ever came into play. It will be impossible to police and the only ones making anything are those controlling it, who will govern it? Nice idea, one best left for 'I Robot' et al.

 

[HDi fun]

I have the solution!

Retest everyone. Every driver must do 5 laps of a racetrack within a set laptime, then 5 more with other drivers in their own cars. If they fail they do not get a licence or bust their own car in the process. That way the only drivers on the road are the switched on ones who know:

1. How to drive through the gears and down again.
2. How to handle a car.
3. How to control your speed.
4. How to judge distances.
5. How to overtake.
6. How to brake and look after your brakes.
7. How to enter and exit a bend.
8. Obervations and awareness of other drivers.

I digress black boxes are for the nanny state and there will be a rebellion if this ever came into play. It will be impossible to police and the only ones making anything are those controlling it, who will govern it? Nice idea, one best left for 'I Robot' et al.

observation attitude and perception are key as well. A racetrack is not ht ecorrect environment to fully assess an inidividual's ability as a road driver. I do think that it would be a very good way indeed to assess vehicle control skills in a safe environment, thus singling out those who need extra training before even attempting a road car test.

However, you should not really need every last ounce of your own car control skills or your car's handling abilities in everyday driving. If so you're either going far too fast or are chronically incapable and need to undertake further training.

 

[stamford]

observation attitude and perception are key as well. A racetrack is not ht ecorrect environment to fully assess an inidividual's ability as a road driver. I do think that it would be a very good way indeed to assess vehicle control skills in a safe environment, thus singling out those who need extra training before even attempting a road car test.

However, you should not really need every last ounce of your own car control skills or your car's handling abilities in everyday driving. If so you're either going far too fast or are chronically incapable and need to undertake further training.

I was extracting the yellow fluid there

I did get carried away though!

 

[HDi fun]

"I was extracting the yellow fluid there

I did get carried away though! "

We all do that at times! it's healthy and good mannered to do so.

It also attracts responses that might otherwise not have been made.

Rgds,

P.

 

[glabus]

OK!
Although you are basically correct there MAY be a case for
Driving without due care and attention:blink:
By not travelling at a competent speed you may be considered to be something of a hazard to other roadusers in that you cause them to take action/s which may be hazardous to you, them or others I.e overtaking you because they are fed up of being behind you and doing so at an unappropriate point or being overtaken themselves:sad2:
The real problem in this is that it would have to be observed by a PO!
The problem with these suggested black boxes (Would they be orange??:bigsmile on first look , is the costs and the technology to work them as has been mooted.
We send people into Space but, you cannot get a mobile signal on Yorkshire Moors??
The speed limiters seem to have similar probs. The technology would be needed to have sensors in/on the roads as well as in the car would it not???
The costs again might be prohibitive

I and many others here agree that the right way forward is that better driving standards are needed by training drivers to use their heads and brains NOT their lead feet.

[info supplied by Police sources]

As far as I'm aware there's no mandatory minimum speed limit legislation in this country so you'd have to re-write the Road Traffic Act immediately.

 

[jarrus]

As far as I'm aware there's no mandatory minimum speed limit legislation in this country so you'd have to re-write the Road Traffic Act immediately.

I know this was posted a while ago,

But I do know that you gain minor point on your driving tests when you are driving under the speed limit and holding the traffic up, so that has to count for something.

Also if the motorway is clear and it isn't indicated otherwise then if you are driving slower that 50 mph you are technicaly breaking the law because some one behind you would have to slow down to a great extent if there was a car in front and you couldn't move out in time.

 

[Yugguy]

 

[jarrus]

Has anyone actually heard what Finnish driver training involves? It's undertaken as part of the school curiclum (sorry I can't spell) and they take the students on skid pans and the like.

I believe training such as this with our own driving test would benefit in countless ways so people have a clue on how there car is going to react when things go pear shaped
and it's all done in a safe environment with an instructor to tell them things they need to improve on and I think then people would appreciate there cars better and may develop a better driving style as a result.
Also I think that motorway driving should be part of the national driving test. I did my pass plus and as an insurance saver it's a waste of time but to learn how to drive on the motorway correctly (entering it, awareness etc) then it was deffinately worth the time and money. My sister now has her driving license and doesn't really know how to drive on the motorway simply because there is no mandatory training.

Speed doesn't directly kill people. Driving like an idiot does.

 

[HDi fun]

In general it's good practice to drive to the speed limit if it's safe to do so. I will often not bother going about 40-45mph in local journeys if the main roads are clear but with following traffic it's only fair to build speed fairly quickly to the posted limit.

 

[Big Fat Fatty]

Has anyone actually heard what Finnish driver training involves? It's undertaken as part of the school curiclum (sorry I can't spell) and they take the students on skid pans and the like.

I believe training such as this with our own driving test would benefit in countless ways so people have a clue on how there car is going to react when things go pear shaped
and it's all done in a safe environment with an instructor to tell them things they need to improve on and I think then people would appreciate there cars better and may develop a better driving style as a result.

I saw Top Gear on Dave last night to!

But you have a point, a compulsory 3(!) year driving course would teach the younguns how to respect the road, conditions, their's and other peoples cars

education not prohibition!!

 

[jarrus]

Didn't watch it mate, lol

I've seen thing like that before I just recalled some past memories.

and yes I agree :

education not prohibition!!

 

[WLBjork]

About 5,6 years ago I read an article in Reader's Digest where they examined the future of road safety devices.

One of the ones examined was a speed limiter, in 3 formats:

Audio/visual alert when exceeding the limit
Could exceed the limit for a short period of time, but then the max. rev. cap would gradually decrease to slow you down to the limit
Absolute, where the max. rev's would be capped at the speed limit.

At no point would the system ever close the throttle.

The analysis at that point was that vehicles fitted with the two latter systems were involved in 25% fewer fatal RTCs, and were much happier as they never triggered a speed camera (not that there's any of them left now...).

I'm surprised that the system has taken so long to come over here - at least in experimental form.

 

[jarrus]

Now something in that statement I don't agree with there,

People who are intentionaly driving fast where they shouldn't probablyknow they are going to get caught out.
But by introducing a speed limiting device like so it would ineffect take some control away from the driver. Yes they won't get caught speeding but the chances are normal drivers get caught speeding because they aren't paying attention!