How many gears do we need

[obi_waynne]

I remember when manual cars had 4 gears and automatics had just 3.

Now we are finding 5 speed gearboxes are the norm and many cars are now coming out with 6 speed gearboxes. Even the humble automatic has seen an increase in the number of available gears.

How many gears do we really need? Do you wish you had an extra gear in your car?

I think mine is crying out for a 6th gear, on the motorway in 5th I am always checking the gearstick that I haven't left it in 4th because it just pulls so well.

 

[turbonutter69]

TBH mine needs a 6th gear for motorway driving but round town an that it's fine with 5.

 

[HDi fun]

I remember when manual cars had 4 gears and automatics had just 3.

Now we are finding 5 speed gearboxes are the norm and many cars are now coming out with 6 speed gearboxes. Even the humble automatic has seen an increase in the number of available gears.

How many gears do we really need? Do you wish you had an extra gear in your car?

I think mine is crying out for a 6th gear, on the motorway in 5th I am always checking the gearstick that I haven't left it in 4th because it just pulls so well.

Try a remapped diesel Waynne. Even 6th which is geared at 40mph/1000rpm will send it scuttling up the road from 70mph like your car would in third.

Specifically the example I'm thinking of is the pre-57 Mondeo 2.2 TDCi. On that basis this car could do with eight gears.

Or, maybe have 6 gears numbered thus:- 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th

 

[Loz]

I've always fancied driving an old American car with a 3 speed box to see what it's like.

Older cars used to have 4 gears, but didn't some have overdrive too which was a little like having a fifth gear?

 

[HDi fun]

I think there's 6 in my Steptronic E39 but automatics don't really count.

The Primera auto had 4 and a half gears.

 

[misenthrop]

Half a gear?

 

[Loz]

1st gear, 2nd gear, 3rd gear, fourth gear & Fift.

:bigsmile:

 

[HDi fun]

Half a gear?

Actually two halfs.

The 'box had four true mechanical ratios and additionally the torque converter would lock up automatically in 3rd and 4th. But it's not a true 6 or 5. It's a 4 speed with torque converter lockup.

The BMW locks up in the top 2 real gears but that, too, is still only a six speed 'box. Not an eight speed one.

Sorry for the stupid way I described this in my previous post.

 

[Loz]

Is a torque converter lock up the same thing as overdrive?

 

[HDi fun]

Is a torque converter lock up the same thing as overdrive?

Not really. Torque converter lockup is there to remove hysterisis losses caused by the pumping of the transmission fluid. Which is kind of why the torque converter type autos are a rule unto themsleves - all the gears are variable to a point.

Overdrive is a bit of a loose term in general.

It can be used to refer to any high gear really.

Whether or not the overdrive unit is separate from the gearbox itself (look at 1970's MGBs) or is simply the incorporation of an additional high ratio 6th gear is hard to determine.

But define a high gear. A 1.1 Punto in 6th gear will not offer very much acceleration even on a flat motorway. So this could be called an overdrive gear.

But an Audi RS4 in 6th will fling itself forward convincingly. So, is this or is it not an overdrive gear.

I often think of overdrive as overgeared ie. you have to go down the 'box if you want any acceleration at all. Which makes them kind of pointless because engines need to breathe properly. No-one saves fuel by running at 950rpm in top gear.

 

[jasio1978]

I've always fancied driving an old American car with a 3 speed box to see what it's like.

My uncle has an old 1960's australian Holden. He has 3 gears on the colum, and hardley ever hits the one hes after.
He always says "3 on the tree, or 4 on the floor."

 

[HDi fun]

My Dad used to hammer on about the 1960s Ford Corsair with the column mounted 4 speed change and how wonderful they were to drive.

Then he went to drive a Honda Civic a couple of years ago and moaned incessantly about the shift mounted so closely to the steering wheel. Talk about leopards and spots.

 

[HDi fun]

To answer directly if we had a perfect engines we'd only need one gear, plus a reverse of course.

 

[stamford]

A recent hire car was a 6 speed, that was weird as I have not driven one before then. My Discovery TD5 needs an extra one as there have been times when I hunting for another gear only to find I'm already in 5th! The ZS is fine, that goes well no matter what gear I'm in and pulls like a train when right up there

One car I used to own always threw a curved ball whenever I drove it. My daily commuter was a Vauxhall Magnum 2300, 4 speed if I recall. My weekend or 'Friday' toy was a Vauxhall Chevette HSX, that ran a Getrag 5 speed box, the one with the dogleg 1st gear, so many times I pulled away in second!

 

[Loz]

Cheers for the Torque Converter explanation HDi

My car could do with an extra gear 70mph comes at about a hair under 3000rpm it doesn't make for a relaxing journey!

 

[HDi fun]

Cheers for the Torque Converter explanation HDi

My car could do with an extra gear 70mph comes at about a hair under 3000rpm it doesn't make for a relaxing journey!

Try my Daddy's 1.6 2002 Astra 1.6 Club 8 valve.

3800rpm at 70mph !!!!! And still spineless with it.

The 406 was geared high 70mph just over 2000rpm but still hurled itself along with total equanimity in fifth.

The 528i is similarly relaxed with 70 at even lower RPM but it's over 100lbft down on the Peugeot and the max torque is at 3500rpm, rather than 2000rpm.

Not so much of a problem though because, being automatic, it will drop discreetly a gear or two, or three to pick up the shortfall.

If you're really in a hurry the just bury the pedal and it will hang on right to the red line in every gear. I try and avoid too much of this because I cannot currently afford the fuel to do so. (It does sound nice though )

You also look a complete twit if you fully kick down below about 40mph because it will go all the way down to first.

 

[pgarner]

I r

I think mine is crying out for a 6th gear, on the motorway in 5th I am always checking the gearstick that I haven't left it in 4th because it just pulls so well.

if you went the 6spd you would need to look at the gearing as standard they, the 5 and 6th are pretty much the same. ie 75ish in 6th is 3000rpm

but yeah i would ether like a 7th gear - going to get confusing with the stick or longer ratios on the 5th and 6th gear

 

[HDi fun]

Often 6th isn't any higher than 5th. Just that they are all closer spaced.

I still don't think than an A3 1.8T is particularly muscular in 5th. Why have an ultra high 6th which leaves you with a downchange every time you want to gain 10mph?

 

[herb]

Often 6th isn't any higher than 5th. Just that they are all closer spaced.

I still don't think than an A3 1.8T is particularly muscular in 5th. Why have an ultra high 6th which leaves you with a downchange every time you want to gain 10mph?

but a remap gets rid of this and 6th becomes a usable gear

 

[HDi fun]

but a remap gets rid of this and 6th becomes a usable gear

I know. I only had 5 in the 406 and that was setup for 70mph at under 200rpm. After the remap the whole box felt racy and under-geared.

 

[chewy1986]

my freelander good have done with a 6 speed box due to the reduction drive, 70mph comes at 3000rpm, its obviously good off the road etc but on the motorway its woring too hard when cruising at 70mph, a 6th gear would give a nice quieter cruise on the motorway

 

[HDi fun]

Blimey. Very low. Does the FLer have a splitter box like the old Land Rovers.

 

[chewy1986]

no instead they put in an intermidiate reduction drive to lower the gearring slighty so that you get a mix of both, instead of the low ratio box we get hill decent, i'd prefer to have a tranny box, but as it is i just feel LR should have used a 6 speed box like theyve done with the newer model

 

[HDi fun]

OK - got it now. Your FLer is not standard.

 

[chewy1986]

yeah its completly standard td4 i havent had it long enough to do any mods on it yet, hopefully in the near future im gonna have a remap and maybe a bit more, the engine in my td4 is the same as the bmw 3series which is rated at 170 bhp as apposed to my 110bhp, but even with a remap i wont get the full benefit of the power due to the gearbox, and dont no of anybody upgrading the gearbox without losing the 4wd

 

[HDi fun]

3000rpm is very high for 70mph. Especially with a derv engine which probably won't go much over 5000rpm.

 

[chewy1986]

yeah thats right, redline 4900rpm, the car tops at about 105mph, due to the gearbox
i heard of people swapping the running gear from a 3 series beema and having it rwd giving the full potential of the engine but that i thinks would be an expensive game

 

[HDi fun]

Does sound a bit pricey. Even so though, the Freelander isn't a dedicated offroader so you'd think they'd have geared it up a little bit.

It sounds to me like it needs about 3 more gears.

 

[chewy1986]

lol yeah for the road definatly, but to be honest it surprisingly good off road though

 

[HDi fun]

lol yeah for the road definatly, but to be honest it surprisingly good off road though

I remember driving one of the early 1998 ones with a 1.8 litre petrol engine but this was long before BMW's involvement so your car is radically different to the one I've just mentioned.

The hill descent control was a source of fascination - kind of like a one speed cruise control. Never got the chance to try it, however. Didn't get off road, either.

Given you use yours both off and on road what do you do about tyres?

 

[chewy1986]

i just have perilli str, which are more road biased but can handle mild off roading, i havnt done any hard core off roading YET!!!!!, for that i would have to change my wheels from 17in that i have now to 15in to accomadate proper mud tyres, and yeah the 1.8 is terrible way too small for that body,

 

[HDi fun]

i just have perilli str, which are more road biased but can handle mild off roading, i havnt done any hard core off roading YET!!!!!, for that i would have to change my wheels from 17in that i have now to 15in to accomadate proper mud tyres, and yeah the 1.8 is terrible way too small for that body,

It was a bit spineless to be honest. I think a short offroad session would have smoked out the clutch very quickly. Also, all the instruments and control were the same as a 1988 Montego. Didn't grab me to be honest.

 

[turbonutter69]

I remember driving one of the early 1998 ones with a 1.8 litre petrol engine but this was long before BMW's involvement so your car is radically different to the one I've just mentioned.

The hill descent control was a source of fascination - kind of like a one speed cruise control. Never got the chance to try it, however. Didn't get off road, either.

Given you use yours both off and on road what do you do about tyres?

I used to have a S plate 1.8 petrol and it was absolutely rubbish on fuel.
Rev gauge use to race the petrol gauge.:blink:

 

[chewy1986]

how true, dont know what LR was thinking putting such a tiny underpowered unit into a heavy 4x4, thank god bmw came in and showed them the way forward.

 

[HDi fun]

how true, dont know what LR was thinking putting such a tiny underpowered unit into a heavy 4x4, thank god bmw came in and showed them the way forward.

Probably trying to garner some of the sub 2 litre company car market