up but not down?

RichiesTrucking

Torque Junkie
Points
22
Location
Falkirk, Scotland
Car
VR4 legnum
as this is largely an enthusiasts forum and therefore modified cars and sky are a specialist in that field, perhaps a question could be answered;)

if i make my car faster it is regarded as higher risk and my premium goes up which makes sense.
if i upgrade my brakes my car should be safer and lower risk so why does my premium not decrease?

it does seem to be based on a standard car but the premiums only go one way and that is not favourable to us, the customers even though the modifications may improve the vehicles safety ie better brakes and handling without increasing power
 

obi_waynne

Administrator
Staff member
Moderator
Points
1,157
Location
Deal, Kent UK
Car
A3 1.4 TFSI 150 COD
Statistics! People who uprate their brakes trend to use the extra stopping power, drive harder and faster and have more accidents.

It shouldn't follow like this but insurers base everything on stats and trends rather than common sense.
 

SLEEPER

Pro Tuner
Points
572
Your point about brakes would certainly be worthy of discussion except that................

I dont know of any one who has just upgraded their brakes and then left the rest of the car completely standard - it just doesnt happen.
 

RichiesTrucking

Torque Junkie
Points
22
Location
Falkirk, Scotland
Car
VR4 legnum
true but very few people do everything at once. my brakes have been upgraded to EVO 8 brembos but i havent done any power mods yet and i wont be doing too much in that area anyway. the next mod will be an EVO 5 RS transfer box which will improve handling as its LSD. the rear is currently an open diff which will be changed to an EVO 8 super AYC to improve handling on the rear. the only power mods in the near future will be bigger intercooler and manual boost controller. other mods will be upgrading things like turbo pipes to hard kit, magnecor leads and things like that so the emphasis is definately on braking and handling
 

Jakeymd

The Torque Meister
Points
102
Location
Ashbourne
Car
Ford Focus 2.0 TDCi
Look at it this way, if you drove slowly you wouldnt need to upgrade your brakes or handling so they will just think "well he must be going like the clappers and now he's going to be going even faster."
Whereas if you fit a top of the range alarm your insurance will likely come down.
 

old-git

Moderator
Points
657
Location
Essex
Car
Elan & Robin Hood
Insurance companies like everything standard. It makes their lives easier. The vast majority of cars on the roads are as they left the factory so modifed ones are an extra risk they are not happy with, hence the premium hikes. They also know that the vast majority of mods are done with with little knowledge and even less skill (low profile tyres stretched onto too wide a rim is the obvious example) resulting in cars that handle worse than standard and often dangerous.

The one saving grace is that there are companies that cater for the enthusiast and treat each car and driver individually (Adrian Flux and Direct Performance as examples - I have no experience of Sky yet other than they coudln't match DP's quote).

Join an owner's club, this often helps. Get some track experience (DP take previous fast car and race track experience into account.

Learn to drive properly by taking lessons which result in a qualification, such as Institute of Advance Mortorists. This will help with both premiums and car control. No, you are not a fully fledged and experienced driver just because you passed your test.

Get older :) Insurance companies don't like fast cars in the hands of young and inexperienced drivers, this a fact you just have to live with.
 
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SLEEPER

Pro Tuner
Points
572
true but very few people do everything at once. my brakes have been upgraded to EVO 8 brembos but i havent done any power mods yet and i wont be doing too much in that area anyway. the next mod will be an EVO 5 RS transfer box which will improve handling as its LSD. the rear is currently an open diff which will be changed to an EVO 8 super AYC to improve handling on the rear. the only power mods in the near future will be bigger intercooler and manual boost controller. other mods will be upgrading things like turbo pipes to hard kit, magnecor leads and things like that so the emphasis is definately on braking and handling

As I said nobdy just does the brakes much isnt none


And as og said handling mods only work better if fitted properly. Plus you cant call an intercooler and a manual boost control mods that have nothing to do with power
 

MasterAuron

Very Senior Member
Points
242
Location
379bhp 359lbft
Car
Mk1 Focus RS
If I buy a standard turbo car that runs say 18psi and just run actuator pressure, say 8psi, will I get cheaper insurance? :bigsmile::bigsmile:
 

RichiesTrucking

Torque Junkie
Points
22
Location
Falkirk, Scotland
Car
VR4 legnum
brakes work on track too so there is no indication that the car would be driven fast on the road. a road car used occasionally on the track is not a track car used occasionally on the road.

the inclusion of the quality of work being carried out is a strange one. standard brakes fitted badly will affect the braking as will inferior parts so that point is not relevant to any modifications
 

SLEEPER

Pro Tuner
Points
572
brakes work on track too so there is no indication that the car would be driven fast on the road. a road car used occasionally on the track is not a track car used occasionally on the road.

Fitting bigger brakes is an obvious indication that the car islikely to be modded since as previously agreed no one just does the brakes.

the inclusion of the quality of work being carried out is a strange one. standard brakes fitted badly will affect the braking as will inferior parts so that point is not relevant to any modifications

Of course it is

If the car hasnt been modified then it is as out the factory and thus as designed . If it has been modded then it isnt so you have the extra chance of the system not being compatible .

Obviously fitting sub standard parts or fitting them badly is dangerous but that is surely more likely overall if the car is modded because it is much easier to mess up brakes by fitting different ones than by just changing the pads.


Try telling your insurance company that you do track days
 

old-git

Moderator
Points
657
Location
Essex
Car
Elan & Robin Hood
Try telling your insurance company that you do track days

Standard, high street, brokers/insurance companies, yes. However, the likes of Performance Direct ask if you have relevent fast car/driving experience compatible with the car you want to insure. The fact that I have owned a a highly tuned Elan (in its day) and a string of tuned Sierra Cosworths and have been drag racing for years helped to reduce the quote.
 

RichiesTrucking

Torque Junkie
Points
22
Location
Falkirk, Scotland
Car
VR4 legnum
that depends on the mods being done. apart from the braided lines and obviously the discs and pads, all parts used are fitted at the factory. they just happen to be from a different model. front LSD diff from an EVO V RS. brakes from an EVO 8 FQ330. brake servo and master cylinder from an EVO 6. SAYC will be from an EVO 8. they are all interchangeable just the same as putting EVO 8 brakes on an EVO 4 which shares the same brakes as the VR4
 

old-git

Moderator
Points
657
Location
Essex
Car
Elan & Robin Hood
that depends on the mods being done. apart from the braided lines and obviously the discs and pads, all parts used are fitted at the factory. they just happen to be from a different model. front LSD diff from an EVO V RS. brakes from an EVO 8 FQ330. brake servo and master cylinder from an EVO 6. SAYC will be from an EVO 8. they are all interchangeable just the same as putting EVO 8 brakes on an EVO 4 which shares the same brakes as the VR4

What depends? You need to reference the post you are referring to :)
 

SLEEPER

Pro Tuner
Points
572
Im afraid you are missing the point RT ; whether the parts fit or not is irrellevant

A mod is a mod is a mod

And it doesnt matter if it is from another car of the same make or not it is still a mod

The problem is that not everyone who mods fits things that are safe.

Personally I am happy you know what you are doing but then I wont be picking up the tab if there is an accident ...................

So it doesnt matter whether you (or I ) know it will fit and are sure it is compatable the insurance company doesnt and since they are picking up the tab they want things kept standard.
 

RichiesTrucking

Torque Junkie
Points
22
Location
Falkirk, Scotland
Car
VR4 legnum
Personally I am happy you know what you are doing
do i?:lol:

i do my homework and brembos have a hell of a reputation however, i am aware that the sliders can cause problems even if i dont know what they are.

when i got the car the brakes were badly worn and had a sticking front caliper so what are my options? spend money on standard replacements or go for the upgrade to improve the braking ability beyond standard? brembos were on the list but at the time it just made sense to upgrade the brakes as i needed them anyway. as the rear connectors were different i upgraded to custom braided lines since i needed them anyway. while i was at it and needed to swap the hub carriers from my V6 i instructed my mechanic to check the ball joints and put the best parts on from the selection available. i have a brake master cylinder and servo waiting to be fitted because i was advised that they will support the 4 pot calipers better than the standard items even though i have also been told that they are not really needed. ok i dont need them but if they will improve the braking even further then why not?

last week i had a diagnosed transfer box issue so i decided to upgrade to an RS box with LSD which i didnt know existed until i needed a replacement part so again, why not upgrade?

my point is that not all upgrades are planned but when you need to replace something and a quality upgrade is available right there in front of you, why not do it if it improves the car? in both cases above they will improve the cars safety but that does not necessarily mean i have deliberately upgraded in order to drive in a manner that requires them

while i may not be a big fan of so called safety features, my priority is always safety but i trust my own eyes and driving skills more than i trust a few sensors feeding information to a computer
 
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