has it been thought of?

[kiemuloly]

okay no-one take me serious this is a stupid idea and im sure not really feasible tho i find it entertaining-

what if we was to have a hollow chassis filled with helium? or larger parts of the car filled...

obviously the car would need to be very balanced and machined to perfection.. and add some sort of valve to re-helium the car, but surely it would reduce the weight =)

prolly wouldnt aid traction at all to take advantage of it but what does anyone have to say on this? =)

 

[HDi fun]

It would reduce the weight if you consider weight to be a function of mass and gravity (which it is). A car that 'weighs' 1.5 tonnes on the surface of the Earth would weigh nothing in empty space with no significant gravitational effects. But its mass would still be 1.5 tonnes.

Air is denser than helium, so replacing the air in hollow sections with helium would reduce the mass very very very slightly. But I'd imagine by less than .0001%. Long before you consider the mass of the valves and seals required to contain the helium.

It's not going to work. Sorry. Simple Newtonian physics has got this one covered.

Rgds,

P.

 

[kiemuloly]

kill joy im sure if it would work it would of been done by now but point me in the direction of ur abstract wont work ideas

 

[aston]

the wheels need to touch the road

 

[HDi fun]

kill joy im sure if it would work it would of been done by now but point me in the direction of ur abstract wont work ideas

You're right. It would have been done by now if it did work.

It won't work.

My 'ideas' are not abstract. They're not even ideas. They're facts. Mass is mass and mass is not weight, These simple facts have been established a couple or more hundred years ago by Sir Isaac himself. Archimedes was on the same track some time earlier. Both are correct.

Let's put it this way - it's your theory, if you think it will work then you justify it and prove it to me and to everyone else.

P.

 

[Saint Bastage]

The offset in wieght would be counteracted by the sealing material needed to fill all those weight reduction holes they drill in the chasis not to mention it would now have to be boxed frame.

 

[HDi fun]

The offset in wieght would be counteracted by the sealing material needed to fill all those weight reduction holes they drill in the chasis not to mention it would now have to be boxed frame.

That's not the point. Car makers look to reduce mass. Weight is simply a by-product of mass.

Why do you think F1 cars use spoilers to generate down-force?

Why not just plonk a couple of lead bricks on the back?

 

[dpsubaru]

Car makers look to reduce mass. Weight is simply a by-product of mass.

this seems to be alluding most modern manufacturers - same model, next generation is always bigger and heavier.

agree with your earlier points, practical example would be a zeppelin. just look at how large the ballon was to enable lift - then imagine how much space is inside a chassis.

 

[HDi fun]

An empty zeppelin still has less mass than one which is full of hydrogen or helium.

There's no such thing as negative mass unless we get into quantum physics where the concept can be useful to help explain certain phenomena. Or, perhaps more accurately, to get around the fact that we don't yet have an explanation.

 

[old-git]

Ignoring the problem of containment and the cost/weight involved, replacing 1m3 of air with 1m3 of helium will reduce weight of car by approx 1kg.


Hmmmm, maybe I should fill the tyres with the stuff

 

[HDi fun]

But why not evacuate the hollow sections completely - a vacuum has no mass at all. Helium, although not as dense as plain air, still has mass.

It's still pointless though.

I think the problem here, OG, is that people (not you) are confusing mass and weight.

 

[old-git]

I agree, HD, that the difference between mass and weight can be confusing.

Ignoring the practicalities, would filling tyres with helium instead of air actually make them lighter? As helium is less dense than air would you need more of it to obtain the same pressure thereby negating the advantage? I have no idea.

 

[HDi fun]

I suspect that you would need more helium because of it's relatively low density compared to plain air.

Are you still in sunny California?

 

[kiemuloly]

*okay no-one take me serious this is a stupid idea and im sure not really feasible tho i find it entertaining-*

and u lot make me out to be a right idiot for saying something so stupid =)

i know it wouldnt work im not trying to prove that it will, but im pretty sure most of the great inventions started out with something random... theres just not much in this area we havnt learnt already...

all im saying if u have a random theory share it- like i was reading a guy years ago that *proved* heaven is hotter than hell. neither place is known to exist so its pointless. but he still did it...

 

[dpsubaru]

all im saying if u have a random theory share it- like i was reading a guy years ago that *proved* heaven is hotter than hell. neither place is known to exist so its pointless. but he still did it...

right, if you say so.

HDi; have re-read what i wrote and it didnt make much sense in regards to what i was trying to say.The jist was it was pointless idea.

For all, for reference, weight is calculated from mass as follows:

Fg = m g
where m is mass and g is local acceleration of free fall.
In modern scientific usage, weight and mass are fundamentally different quantities: mass is an intrinsic property of matter, whereas weight is a force that results from the action of gravity on matter: it measures how strongly the force of gravity pulls on that matter. However, in most practical everyday situations the word "weight" is used when, strictly, "mass" is meant. For example, most people would say that an object "weighs one kilogram", even though the kilogram is a unit of mass.

 

[obi_waynne]

*okay no-one take me serious this is a stupid idea and im sure not really feasible tho i find it entertaining-*

and u lot make me out to be a right idiot for saying something so stupid =)

i know it wouldnt work im not trying to prove that it will, but im pretty sure most of the great inventions started out with something random... theres just not much in this area we havnt learnt already...

all im saying if u have a random theory share it- like i was reading a guy years ago that *proved* heaven is hotter than hell. neither place is known to exist so its pointless. but he still did it...

Keep on theorizing, we've all come up with something we thought would work.

I had dreams of a perpetual motion machine using a car with an electric motor and a dymo with solar panels on the roof. Sadly it didn't work due to the practical constraints of physics. Perhaps if solar panels get more efficient it might work one day.

 

[HDi fun]

Solar panels are very efficient indeed, Sunlight is free.

 

[obi_waynne]

Just not efficient enough yet to power a car! Flights have recently been achieved which is a move in the right direction.

 

[old-git]

*okay no-one take me serious this is a stupid idea and im sure not really feasible tho i find it entertaining-*

and u lot make me out to be a right idiot for saying something so stupid =)

i know it wouldnt work im not trying to prove that it will, but im pretty sure most of the great inventions started out with something random... theres just not much in this area we havnt learnt already...

all im saying if u have a random theory share it- like i was reading a guy years ago that *proved* heaven is hotter than hell. neither place is known to exist so its pointless. but he still did it...

I hope no one on here is trying to make you out an idiot. The idea has provoked an interesting discussion. makes a change from 'how low can I take my car?'

The more of these thought provoking, if ultimately unworkable, theories the better as they make for good banter.

 

[old-git]

I suspect that you would need more helium because of it's relatively low density compared to plain air.

Are you still in sunny California?

That was my thought, but no proof.

Unfortunately, no. I had to come back to complete my final 2 weeks at work before becoming a pensioner - 4 days to go

 

[HDi fun]

Congratulations!!

 

[old-git]

Congratulations!!

I'll let you know in a couple of weeks

 

[dpsubaru]

OG - my Dad retired about 3 years ago - and now he is busier than he was when he was working!

 

[old-git]

OG - my Dad retired about 3 years ago - and now he is busier than he was when he was working!

I have heard this before, but I bet he is doing things he wants to do rather than things he had to do

 

[HDi fun]

Bet you wonder how you ever found time to go to work before

 

[old-git]

Bet you wonder how you ever found time to go to work before

When younger (a lot younger) I used to work all day, then drive over to the lockup and work on car until 2 or 3 in the morning, drive home, catch a couple of hours sleep and then off to work again, day after day.

I can still do this, but only for one night