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Sluggish 307 90 bhp 2.0 litre hdi

Discussion in 'Peugeot forums' started by stormforce, 20 October 2006.

  1. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    Hi everyone nice to be part of the group this is my first post and already after some info.

    I have a 307 2.0 litre hdi 90bhp and basically it does not pick up at all well in the lower gears.
    its like a flat spot I suppose it does it when I change from 1st to 2nd and 2nd th 3rd after that its not to bad its like a delay thing and to be honest frustrating.

    I have never known this in a diesel before its well weird I have had a citreon zx 1.9 diesel 1995 a Rover 400 sdi diesel 1999 and a renault clio 1.5 diesel 2003 and never had this nonsense before.

    Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated

    regards....................Paul
     
  2. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    35,083
    Location:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 2.0 TDI
    Hi Paul welcome aboard. A few questions to help us decide what the problem is. At what RPM does the engine seem to start pulling - is it the same rpm in each gear as well? When was it last serviced? What is the mileage? What is the fuel economy like?
     
  3. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    Hi Waynne and everyone,

    It pulls better if I give it a good blast in 1st gear it does not seem to do it as bad when the engine is warmed up but still does it.
    the engine pulls ok in all gears above 1500 it has 31000 on the clock and it has just been serviced but not by a main Peugeot dealer I bought the car from an independent dealer.
    I have also had my own mechanic (known him and trusted him for years) change the oil and 3 filters just to be on the safe side.
    fuel economy is not brillant about 50 on a good run expected a bit more but I have only had the car 8 days so hard to say.

    Thanks......................Paul
     
  4. kukuku

    kukuku Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    20
    I have a 206 Hdi 2.0 when I had it at 90bhp I noticed that taking say, a minute or so after the engine is warm to just take it in first gear and drive it slowly up the revs and do the same on 2nd etc that when you do it again and change gears fast it will pull - an amazing difference. ATM I drive it out slowly in first then bang in 2nd 3rd and its pretty noticable, however i got mine remapped by a garage I know from 90 to 125 and i do recommend you do it because it is deff worth the money if you want power. Other makes of cars seem to have alot better diesl engines, VW, SEAT for example, the 1.9 TDi engines they have seem to be alot better than peugeots. Although with that said the fuel economy from peugeot and citroen alike are superb.
     
  5. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    Thanks for your reply I am considering getting the car remapped.

    I was thinking rather than go the whole hog and take it all the way to 125bhpo just go to 110bhp but would it be worth it :?:

    Also is it a good idea to go legit and tell the dvla and the insurance that you have gone to say 110 bhp and would thay still insure the car and issue a new log book. :!:

    Or would it be more hassle than its worth :?:

    I have been quoted £250.00 to get it done( is this a good price) and this includes a rolling road test but will it solve my problem as in the original post above :?:

    Thanks.........................Paul
     
  6. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    35,083
    Location:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 2.0 TDI
    DVLA only need to know of a change in information on the logbook such as cylinder capacity. On newer cars that record emissions you need to keep within those tolerances but you must tell your insurers - see the insurance article on the main site for some tips on how to approach the insurers.
     
  7. kukuku

    kukuku Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    20
    Any remap backed with a rolling road at that price is great from where I'm from, mine was a little more expansive and i didnt get a rolling road, good job my friend has one though to make sure I got what i paid for :) It is entirely up to you if you tell the insurer, it is worth thinking about what would happen if you crashed though and your insurance company decided they wouldn't pay out! I guess its ok if you go the whole hog providing you don't go mad everytime you get into the car, otherwise no matter what you do to it you're going to give the engine problems.
     
  8. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    35,083
    Location:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 2.0 TDI
    The consequences of not informing insurers - invalidated insurance cover. An endorsement on your licence for driving without insurance. Police charges of obtaining a certificate of insurance by deception. No Cover means you could become liable for ALL third party claims (property and injuries) and there will be no payment for the repairs to your car. With this on your record it is extremely unlikely that you will obtain reasonable insurance quotations for a period of 10 years! :shock:

    IMO It is not worth even chancing something like this.
     
  9. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    Thanks to everyone for all there help regarding all issues and the insurance I think I have read the correct article on the main site 'modified insurance'

    A very useful article and this is one of the reasons I was only thinking of getting the car re-mapped slightly short of maximum to 110 bhp because one of my arguments then if the insurers got concerned would be

    The car is available as 110 bhp as manafactured so whats the difference between mine and someone elses.
    Also my model has disc brakes all round could easily handle the extra power without compromising safety at all.

    My model is the Rapier is that why I have all round disc brakes :?: and does anyone know how to activatew the rain sensitive wipers :?:
    As I have no manual with the car but am about to buy one soon.
     
  10. kukuku

    kukuku Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    20
    Exactly :lol: , I was too lazy to tell the story though :D I know of alot of high performance cars were I live currently insured and taxed as standard 1.2's even though they have 2.0 supercharged beasts roaring in them, God only knows what kind of a stunt you got to pull to get away with that :lol: .

    EDIT: Regards to the rain sensitive wipers, on my 206 on the right leaver for wipers, the first notch up from off makes them automatic, if you have a small screen that tells you MPG, AVG SPD, Mileage, miles left on tank, it should come up, Automatic wiping Active. Also! If you turn your key (whilst the car is off) around to 2 notches before ignition, and HOLD the button on the end of the left leaver(for lights) auto lights come on,(based on me thinking 307 and the new 206 models have the same gadgets) This notch is just before the "click" that starts heating the engine. They are highly annoying though because you can only turn them off by stopping the car and turning them off ( I think, never read the manual). Hope that helps.
     
  11. Freddie

    Freddie Road burner

    Messages:
    473
    Location:
    Surrey
    An interesting thread indeed..

    On the note of Diesel Turbo's and remaps there are significant gains to be had. One thing you must remeber is that this new and mproved power figure is 'peak power'.. And from reading what you have said, it seems like what you are experiencing is turbo lag. I'm not sure on how much you know at turbo's, but just incase this is nothing I will explain a few things quickly.

    (Skip this is you know how turbo's work!)
    Turbos are powered by the gasses which leave your engine. The turbo is is attached to the exhuast manifold, all of the gasses which leave your engine pass through here, the turbo utilises the flow rate of these gases, using them to power a turbine, which has the opposite effect on the opposide side of the tubo housing. The turbo now 'spooling' will suck air in through the air intake system, creating a boost effect forcing air into the engine.

    Now the lag part.. This occurs becuase the turbo does not 'spool' or spin right from the word go. On some engines with large turbo's (and large, heavy turbines) they wont reach a decent level of boost until 3k RPM, or even higher. Therefore turbo's wont improve acceleration low down anyway, infact they have the opposite effect, restricting airflow and reducing the rate of combustion.

    Although remapping will eliminate lag to certain degree, as you are improving engine efficiency, there is only so much fuel the engine can combust without the nessessary air to combust it with.

    Diesel turbos are considered to have the best of both worlds.. They combust very little fuel whilst cruising and running no boost, but can shift when the turbo kicks in.

    I think the re-map is a good idea, but don't hold back with the 110BHP, if you can achieve 125 then do it. It wont make a difference to the insurance company. But it is practically undetectable anyway.

    I think that the real problem is that you are not giving your car enough stick! Drive turbo'd cars up high in the powerband and they will respond by giving you what it is you crave, acceleration! Once you hit the boost hard in first, when you change gears the revs shouldn't drop too much and the turbo should continue spooling.. Resulting in little lag when you shift up.

    Hope this helps.
     
  12. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    Thanks for the reply Freddie 8)

    A few things come to mind could I have a problem with the turbo and is it worth while getting the car diagnosticly tested at my local Pug dealer :?:

    Before a throw money on a remap out

    I cant count my Citreon ZX cus that never had a turbo and that used to shift and it was only 72 bhp if my memory serves me right.

    But the Rover 400 SDI I had was a turbo and it was 84 bhp but it never had this turbo lag problem at all
    And also the Renault Clio 1.5 dci 65 bhp common rail never had this problem it was quite gutsy really.

    (The Renault was bought from a main Renault Dealer makes you wonder does it not :?: the car was probally set up properley by the servicing department.
    Once they have sold it they dont want you going back every 5 minutes)


    I fully understand what you are saying Freddy when you say give the car some welly but at 90bhp should I really need to really poke it or is it quite a heavy car indeed heavier than the Rover 400 which was a solid car as we all know built to Honda standards as it was available as a Civic as well.

    As you say this is an interesting thread and it will be quite useful when I find the answers hopefully without laying to many shillings out. :!:

    Regards..............Paul
     
  13. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    35,083
    Location:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 2.0 TDI
    From memory these engine run on lower compression pistons to help avoid turbo lag. The Clio is very light also so would seem really quick and the Rover 400 was about 1400-1500kgs so still pretty light in diesel terms. Sometimes its down to the gearing as well.
     
  14. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    Thanks Wayne and freddy

    I have had some info back regarding the problems I have been having from a re-map specialist.
    He tells me that the car deffo has a fault on it and not to get it re-mapped as this may actually make it worse.
    He tells me he has not heard of this fault before on the 90bhp 307's

    So interesting that I have booked in to were I bought it a non Pug dealer and I will let there mechanic look at it.
    After that if no improvement I would rather take it to a Pug dealer and shell out than put up with it running like rubbish.
    Its doing it in third now as well.

    But thanks a lot for all your help it is much appreciated............Paul :rolleyes:
     
  15. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    35,083
    Location:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 2.0 TDI
    Ohh bad news - hope its nothing major!
     
  16. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    Thanks Wayne I am guessing it could be a faulty injector :( all will be revealed shortly :?:
     
  17. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    Whoops feel like a bit of a fraud I have just found out that some car mats installed by a previous keeper of my car were limiting the throttle peddle slightly. :?
    Not a lot but enougth for me to think my car was having particually bad turbo lag as opposed to mild turbo lag. :rolleyes:
    I have of course removed the offending mats and the car drives much better it does still lag but its a lot more bearable and does not distract from the pleasure of driving the car. :wink:
    So heres me thinking my car was crap underpowered and any other name you can think of and all the time it was a silly mat. :twisted:
    They say every day is a school day they are right. :!:
    I am grateful for all the info inputted by other members of this forum thank you everyone. :lol:

    Regards...........Paul
     
  18. Freddie

    Freddie Road burner

    Messages:
    473
    Location:
    Surrey
    It's okay! All part of the learning curve! I guess you can't fix everything over the internet, there is no way any of us would have guessed that!
     
  19. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    35,083
    Location:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 2.0 TDI
    On my old Corolla - we had a new clutch fitted and the hydraulic clutch & pedal was set up with a thick mat and we seemed to suffer from drag with the clutch never fully disengaging we took it back 4 times until the guy at the garage spotted the problem - took out the mat and adjusted it up to the correct tolerance!!!
     
  20. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    Hi Freddy

    The clutch travel is a lot however which does not promote a smooth driving car do you know if its self adjusting on a 307 or is it a mechanic job :?:

    Thanks Paul
     
  21. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    Hi All

    Thanks to everyone for all the advice you all gave me regarding my car.
    I have also recently filled the tank right up about £45.00 worth and put a full bottle of diesel fuel system cleaner in as well and the car is now running a lot better.

    Mind you I took it for a 525 mile run around Yorkshire while on holiday from work
    So for anyone who thinks they may have turbo lag try this as well as other things it makes quite a difference.

    My fuel system and injectors must have been well messed up.

    I achieved about 47 miles to the gallon thats about 75% motorway and A roads verses 25% Town and City.

    Is 47mpg good or bad

    Regards................Paul
     
  22. Freddie

    Freddie Road burner

    Messages:
    473
    Location:
    Surrey
    A little below your 'book estimates' from Peugoet, who state 52MPG; but this is nothing to worry about.
     
  23. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    Hi All

    Had the diagnostic done today the fault that showed up on pugs print out is the
    diesel fuel heat sensor
    wants replacing never heard of this part before has anyone else heard of it. :?:

    And would it being defective make a car sluggish :?:

    Have I finally found my sluggish 90bhp problem :?:

    All will be revealed tomorrow when the part is fitted :?

    Regards.....................Paul
     
  24. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    I took my 307 to a main Peugeot dealer to have the mass air flow tested with regards to the poor performance I have been getting, they removed the large box on the right of the hdi engine cover.
    Guess what they never re-installed the mass air flow box back properley and now the car makes a loud rumble at the lights when ticking over. :!:
    Taken it back twice and on the second occasion the service manager got in to my car and sitting there he revved the engine and said to me what am I looking for again. :x
    I give up!
    Puts you right off main dealer serviceing unbelievable. :?

    At the end of the day you cant beat a local knowledgeable mechanic who actually wants your repeat business. :!:

    May report this to Peugeot head office because customers should not get this sort of thing happening what do other members of this message board feel :?:

    Has anyone else experienced this sort of appauling service. :?:
     
  25. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    35,083
    Location:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 2.0 TDI
    I tried a couple of Audi dealers before I found a nice one. The first was only interested in me if I was buying a brand new car. I guess that some dealers get complacent - they are the only one in the area so they presume that people have to use them! I agree wholeheartedly with your statement about a small local business that wants repeat business. I would certainly report it to Peugeot - many dealers have incentives and customer service targets to meet. I don't suppose they sent you a satisfaction survey?
     
  26. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    Thanks Wayne you are correct they did not send a satisfaction survey :rolleyes:

    Someone was telling me nation wide car servicing are good and they have all the correct equipment :?:
     
  27. kukuku

    kukuku Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    20
    hey guys, been a while on here... I have had no money whatsoever with xmas and all so havnt got anything done yet :(
    My experience with Pug dealership:
    BOught car, it was making a massive banging noise at the back, like rattling also... brought it to them because the exhaust was also making a funny noise... one mechanic said yea that needs replaced and we will do it within your warrenty, and the rattling will probably be the exhaust.... when i brought it back to get fixed, they said: There is nothing wrong with the car, however you seem to have broken a plastic plate underneath the engine, and it will cost £80 to fix....(I broke what!?) "You must of driven over a ramp too hard" Erm no, not that I know of.... "... its not covered by warrenty so will i order it in now?" I said ofc and a year later they are still telling me my part is ready xD
    Also i went to a local mechanic and he said it would cost £5 to fix... I have made my mind up anyway and Pug dealerhips are about as usefull as the paper the warrenty is written on..
     
  28. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    35,083
    Location:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 2.0 TDI
    Its not looking good for Pug dealers is it! Perhaps someone out there has a better experience with them?
     
  29. stormforce

    stormforce Wrench Pro

    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Birkenhead Merseyside
    Latest news from my disapointing pug 307 is I am at present returning a miserley 32 to the gallon around town.
    Terrible for a diesel even this time of year when your using auxillaries like blowers and heated rear window.
    What are others getting out of there 307,s :?:

    A mate of mine is a taxi driver he has a 406 on a W plate.
    His car is approx 200 kilograms heavier than mine and yet he tells me that his returns 45 mpg around town with 165,000 on the clock weird or what :?:

    I dont get it I must have what is known in the trade as a lemon or its got a leak.
    I have never known such an uneconomical diesel I may as well be driving a petrol car.

    All the best to you one and all and a prosperous new year

    Regards...................Paul
     

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