ECU Management - which gizmo should I use?

BlkSilverRedXD

BlkSilverRedXD

Tuner
Points
15
Location
Florida USA
Car
2003 Elantra GLS
I've already decided to get an HPTuner for the V8 to help get better fuel economy if possible, but the Hyundai is a totally different thing altogether. So many different options out there, but I've narrowed them down to a couple choices that I've been reading about over the last couple of weeks and days:

Venom 400
Megasquirt
KWP2000 Plus
Pectel SQ6 (VERY wishful thinking :lol: )
Piasini Serial Suite

Has anyone had any experience using any of these bits on their cars? and, MOST importantly: DO THEY DO WHAT THEY SAY?

i know for sure that the pectel seems to be the most credible, (the WRC Accent listed it among its specs), but what of the others? what will work with my '03 Elantra's Kefico ECU? Looking to get more torque and to gain/keep more hp.

Thanks in advance
 
Hi. Which ECU to chose is dependant on what you plan to do with the car, its state of tune and what you want it to be able to control.

Answer these questions and we may be able to narrow the choice down.
 
Car is stock apart from air intake modifications. stainless steel intake with 3 x 6 cone air filter. throttle body coolant line bypass is the only other thing. What I want is:

better torque , acceleration, throttle response, and launch to have them when i need them (tired of praying the MAC truck doesnt catch up with me when i try to merge onto a highway or street. low-gearing doesn't always work, and is bad for the transmission, i fear). car gear ratio "development" is smooth. TOO smooth in some circumstance where more torque and better acceleration is needed.

more horsies! :amuse:
[|B] I also want to get between 150 - 170 or as close to 200 AS POSSIBLE with the stock engine. N/A all the way. No turbo. will buy a turbo car if/when i want one.

make a good car perform better.

overall, I am planning on modding the suspension, might also do a throttle bore and give it a thorough tune-up (hasn't had one since I had it yet.), going back down to 16" or 17" rims, finishing up my air intake project (since the air intake and throttle body coolant bypass mod, the feel of the car is a better one. gradual accelleration as usual, but not lagging or sluggish. Car feels like it WANTS to run again). also want to add either a DC or Magnaflow muffler, change to a high-flow cat or delete the cat and use a glasspack in its stead, and add 4-2-1 headers to help the engine breathe out better.

the XD engine has a lot of potential. just has an overly-protective and possessive mother (ecu) watching over it. I think ecu management, standalone or piggyback, is the only think that will help gain, and KEEP, what I want.
 
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If I have the right car, it's 135bhp as standard?

A remap will get you around 10% = 149bhp

Decent exhaust and better breathing MAY get you another 10, let's say 15 so we are up to 164bhp. Where do you plan to get the other 36bhp from?

If your existing ECU is capable of being remapped then I doubt that a new ECU will do anything other than empty your pockets of the cash you could have spent on other improvements. However, I am no expert on ECUs so I could be wrong, but I don't thaink there would be any point in fitting a Pectel or similer (or better) ECU to what is, basically, a stcok engine.
 
Well, from what I've read, the ECU for this car is notorious for "adapting" to the driver's habits (kinda like how your computer's memory and web cookies store your history and browsing habits), and makes adjustments to curb the gains. This is a US XD engine that was tuned to conform to the emissions standards. there've been numerous online debates on how to manage the ECU so as to keep the gains you get when you make modifications. the ecu management is to KEEP the gains, mostly. any extra hp gained would be a bonus i think.

so with what I mentioned, 164 is theoretically possible? I'd be happy with that.

the other BHP? not sure (and not necessary, really. the 164 is within my 150-170 range that I mentioned as my 1st target). what would a cam sprocket advance (say, 3 notches), cams upgrade, port and bore the air intake manifold and exhaust manifold, and pulley upgrades net?

the ecu management is to help KEEP the gains more than GET the gains, for what I planned. do you understand what i mean? sorry if i'm not relaying what I'm trying to say properly. no sarcasm, i really mean that. I want to learn.
 
also with any ecu change you need to decide if there is a budget.

Ther isn't much point in spending £1000+ on a close to stock engine
 
I understand where you're coming from. it's always wise to calculate the costs before going into anything time and money-consuming.

I have been reading on other forums about how some have gained 7 - 10 hp with mods to the stock engine, but in all instances, a piggyback or standalone ecu was a big part in adjusting the curves. that's why I am convinced that some sort of ECU management is needed for what I want to do.

$1000 US in parts and equipment doesn't sound like a bad investment for 20 hp. there are tales online of some spending more than that without ecu management or flashing in their formula and lost both the hp and the money. sometimes you have to spend alot, be it time or money, to get what you're looking for; no matter the subject or goal to be achieved. not prepared to spend? not prepared PERIOD.

i know a $30 "powerchip" isn't going to be the magic pill that is going to net me scores of hp. something better is needed, and the list of piggybacks and standalone ecu's listed in the beginning seem the most reputable (the Pectel SQ6 being used in Hyundai's WRCs in the past along with the ecu. but it's too costly so that one is O.U.T).

I just need to know what I need to do mechanically and electronically to get the extra I need out of my car's stock engine, and keep most or all of it. hp, torque, or acceleration.

The car is here to stay, it's a good car, and I want to make it better. the gains that Old-Git mentioned seem like a reasonable benchmark. forget the 200 hp. Lets try for 165-170
As far as budget: let's say hypothetically, between $1000 - $3000 US over a period of time
 
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Please bear in mind that the gains I suggested were on the optomistic side as I have no idea how restrictive your existing intake and exhaust systems are and I was trying to get as close to your 200bhp as possible :). 10bhp increase from induction and exhaust mods would be very good.

As an aside, mods to the intake and exhaust don't actually increase an engine's power, they just release more of what is available.

If your ECU is designed to stop you increasing power then any of the aftermarket offerings in the budget range would do, provided they can be mapped.
 
Thanks, O-G. anything more than what the car has presently would be well ventured, in my opinion. I will try to get an increase within 15-20 hp. the 200 mark can wait.

right now the air intake has been upgraded to 3" stainless steel tubing with plastic and silicone joints and elbows. thinking of a throttle bore and spacer, but I'll have to get input from a client of mine who has a machine shop and has experience with vehicle components on making the spacer. I want to use a wedge of stainless steel instead of the DIY cutting board spacer or the aluminum spacers online, because of stainless steel's ability to be a poor heat conductor. yes it gets hot, but not as quickly. that's why i was convinced into choosing it for the tubing for the air intake. There's a cone air filter on the end of the intake. the exhaust system is still stock, but that will change in the coming weeks.

the aftermarket offerings vary in price and user-friendliness, but are all within the $500 range, some being less than $100 on some online stores and bidding sites.

I'll get to work on this.

I absolutely appreciate the helpfulness and input from you guys. Thanks!

P.S.: anyone here has experience using any of these:
Venom 400
Megasquirt
KWP2000 Plus
Piasini Serial Suite
 
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UPDATE: scored a KWP2000 Plus. WILL GET MODS DONE 1ST AND RESEARCH THIS SOFTWARE CAREFULLY B4 FLASHING THE ECU (might get additional help from a performance shop if needed and/or get a backup ecu just in case). Also made sure that the item was returnable and had a guarantee.

located 17" rims (no rubber) for a very reasonable price, and also there are great prices for parts on rockauto's site. The local salvage yards were thin on KDM cars lately but found out yesterday that I can get both tie rods and arms, the whole assembly, for less than $100 US. The yards also get aluminum aftermarket wheels on a regular basis but they quickly salvage these to the scrap yards. I'm tempted to salvage an ugly-but-straight set with only cosmetic damage or old, fix/sand/clean/paint them up and mount some rubber on 'em.

Lots to do, but feeling confident. will update in a couple of months.
 
If I were you, I wouldn't go the route you're thinking of re: changing management. The real gain in remapping your engine's management software will actually be more from the throttle map than anything else. You MAY get a little more in the middle and some at the top end of the rev range but for overtaking ability and off the line you need to increase the torque not the power. And in a N/A engine you're not really going to benefit in this manner from a remap. The additional throttle response from your remap will make it beneficial and you'd notice it so I'd still have it done. But, more than anything else, if I were you, i'd see if I could swap my CWP. Shortening this by say 10% will make a massive difference in every gear, everywhere in the rev range even though your power will be the same. The side effect though is that you'll be higher in the rev range for any given speed but... if you like the sound of your engine and exhaust it'll be worth doing! It might actually even be cheaper than spending a few thousand on a new stand alone ecu management program

hth...
 
when you say CWP, are u talking about the transmission/ gear ratio/timing? (im relatively new to mechanics, so plz bear with me. thanks in advance). how do you go about shortening it?

I also read about getting a cam sprocket and doing a cam sprocket adjustment to increase torque, along with a fuel remap (is that what you mean? Novice over here, you can tell). would six degrees of crank advance help too?

also, would higher compression help with a N/A DOHC engine, like say, a thinner head gasket were used?

I agree that bottom end power, throttle response, and torque is the key to the car feeling better. it's lazy in the low range, but when it hits 2800 - 3000 rpm, it wakes up.

What I've been noticing since I upgraded my air intake, The throttle response has gotten better since I did that along with resetting the ecu. but, as the engine gets warmer, the car's throttle response is lazier. I planned on getting a throttle spacer to help "buy the throttle some time" so that it doesn't heat up as quickly, and also further modify the intake i built by insulating it better. Throttle cable was a little too slack, so I adjusted that and it has been a BIT better.

Mods will be done first, then the flash/map after that. it's a computer. unless a computer is reset and tweeked a bit (even your lappys and desktops do this) they don't work right with new hardware changes. that's why i wanted a piggyback or an ecu flasher, so the investment is an important one.

as for engine/exhaust noise, NO PROBLEM! Love it! I have a plan for a nice sounding but more-importantly BETTER performing exhaust system. Hardware first (including your suggestion. thanks very much) then the ecu will be the last thing to be dealt with.
 
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CWP is crown wheel pinion. Yes it's to do with the gearing. Some manufacturers use same bell housings and so some transmissions from smaller engines can bolt onto cars with different engines... think 1.6 gearbox from a peugeot 205 into a 1.9 engined Pug 205 for example. Same gear ratios just different final drive or CWP. Toyota MR2s had shorter ratios for their N.A. engines vs their turbo engines with the same capacity.... so swapping a na transmission onto a turbo engine gives greater acceleration without any increase in power.

I wouldn't go swapping to a thinner head gasket without proper engineering advice - which I'm not qualified to give for head work.

RE: your air filter observation. It wouldn't surprise me if your air filter is now letting in hotter air than the std filter was letting in and as such you're actually losing power rather than gaining it! If it were me I would've kept the std air filter housing and just upgraded to a more free flowing filter to get the best of both worlds... increased flow without increasing air temp into the engine
 
right now, the 3" x 6" cone air filter is right up by the radiator on the driver side, facing the fan, and next to the battery. This is 9" away from where the factory air box snorkel usually is.
The port at the front of the filter is attached to a fabricated snorkel-scoop fitted right on the bumper behind the grill. it has a bigger opening with the idea to catch air from outside to feed into the intake via the filter. both of them are linked together with non-ribbed tubing. So some of the initial air is coming directly from outside of the engine bay. If it rains, just disconnect from the filter. there's plenty of air flow I.M.O

I plan to somehow house the filter outside the engine bay completely. Somewhere behind the bumper most likely. but I have to build a housing or buy a cover for it to shield it from direct water while driving. I'm also going to figure out some way how to insulate and shield the tubing and build a heat shield for the filter. Another plan was to fabricate an R34-type scoop from under the hood at the front to feed air into or onto the filter from outside, if i choose to let it remain where it is right now.
 
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This would work, as long as there is a pressure differential between the air inlet and the engine bay. IE the pressure at the inlet is higher than in the engine bay.
 
I don't know your car but, generally, you will have high pressure at the front of the car (grill area) and the very front of the bonnet. The pressure then drops off as you move back along the bonnet (lowest pressure around the middle) until it increases again at the base of the windscreen.
 
just read an article from Julian Edgar from Australia and it's given me more insight on how to go about this. I'll be using a combination of all 3 ideas listed above, but I will also see about devising a plan to induct air into the box as well as catching it via the R34 scoop idea. the current snorkel will be also used, but will be upgraded to a better material, bigger diameter, and insulated.
I noticed the stock air snorkel has a fiber-like material to trap moisture. I could cut out that section and use it in my custom setup, or buy an intake bypass/fab one from another filter I have (this and the stock snorkel piece will cost me NOTHING! gotta love "hobby-class" mods!)
 
old-git said:
I don't know your car but, generally, you will have high pressure at the front of the car (grill area) and the very front of the bonnet. The pressure then drops off as you move back along the bonnet (lowest pressure around the middle) until it increases again at the base of the windscreen.
Click to expand...

I call the front. The car is an 03 elantra.
 
UPDATE: going to make an insulated air box for the filter AND start a new thread. This is going to be way more than just an ecu reflash. this is more of a total upgrade project, if anything.

THANK YOU guys for your input.
 
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