Does global warming exist

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HDi fun

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All this fuss and we're still not clear whether global warming actually exists.

(Waynne snipped this discussion from our thread about new cars CO2 ratings as I think this makes a worth topic for debate.)
 
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Re: Which new cars are not Co2 rated for tax

Climate change exists but whether it is in fact man made or not is still up for debate. I do know we are not helping.

I did think that Imports might be engine size rated which if true opens up a world of possibilities.

It may be only £400 a year now but what will this become in 5 or 10 years time? A chance to apply a green tax like this and keep increasing it is too good for the westminster lads to ignore!:eek:

I rekon that car tax will double over the next 10 years for anyone who wants a car that does anything interesting when you press the accelerator pedal.
 
Re: Which new cars are not Co2 rated for tax

Yes, we are clear that Global Warming exists.

It would be flipping cold if it didn't - Global Warming (when discovered in the 1820s) was calculated to be +20 degrees centigrade.

Likewise, we know that we've been pumping out enough carbon dioxide to overload the planet's absorbtion capacity since the 1890s (probably before, but that's when Arrhenius went through the sums and came up with the hypothesis that developed into Climate Change).
 
Global warming is a complex issue and it doesn't necessarily mean the temperature goes up. Weather patterns should average out with higher temperatures but we will still see some extremes. I prefer to use the phrase Climate Change and yes I do think we are seeing a change in the climate.

Is global warming really a big problem? Is it a natural cycle? How much input does man have on the global climate?
 
yes it does exist. rememeber when the dinos were about it was alot hotter and im pretty sure they didnt have cars ;) but there has also been several ice ages recorded.

youve also got to remember that the earth doesnt perfactly circle the sun its elliptical so some years we are closer to the sun and it warms up. other times we end up further away so its colder.
originally it was the huge hole in the ozone layer. funny that seems to have started to heal over and now we have the global warming, mm maybe if we punch a hole in the ozone to let some CO2 out then it might help. mmmmm ponders if the G20 leaders will accept this
 
I'm happy to sit on the fence until more evidence is provided. Just because 20 million people choose to believe in it does not mean that they are all correct. Just easily led, that's all.
 
ok
lets ban cars cos they give out carbon.
but lets build more airports cos planes dont.
they are so two faced about global warming, its just another way of getting more money out of us.

the world heats up and cools down in regular cycles.
we had a mini ice age in victorian times and now we are in a slight warming up cycle.
 
It's all got out of hand. The only reason we're told that plant derived fuel carbon neutral is a problem is because governments can't find a way to tax the stuff.

It's got sod all to do with children starving in third world countries.
 
sure man has not helped over the years
but no matter how much man kicks out nature kicks out a lot more then we can ever produce

and as seasick steve said on top gear sunday everyone says about the toyota prius but a 50's chevy running non stop from the day it was made kicks out less co2 then a prius does to be made
 
everyone says yes - but compared to what time before? compared to 100 years ago, ok. compared to when a lot of the world was primeval swamps - definately not. imo its a natural cycle and we can try and prevent it but in the longterm will be interested to see what unintended consequences this results in (although to be realistic doubt that any of us would be alive to witness the geological longterm).
 
dpsubaru said:
(although to be realistic doubt that any of us would be alive to witness the geological longterm).
Click to expand...

Exactly why I burn Polar Bears to keep warm. Even our childrens children won't witness any massive effect, so the real question is (and I don't mean this in a way that is derogatory to the thread)...does anybody that matters actually care?
 
We are over due a ice age witch is around every 12.500 years and the planet needs to warm up for it to happern but we are to blame as well the planet is an engine so needs looking after too.
 
We've just been through a period of solar sunspot minimums - which usually happens during ice age periods - without any reduced temperatures. Indeed, the temperatures have still been climbing.

lutonmatt, it's not the amount Nature kicks out, it's the amount Nature can absorb.

The activity of humankind has pushed the balance from within absorbtion limits to outside absorbtion limits - especially with all the trees we keep chopping down/burning off.
 
Its is widley accepted that there are smaller hot - cold cycles within the greater picture of ice ages and tropical periods, if you can think back to the 1960's there were madly hot summers, yet in the late 70's there were winters that coated the south of england in six feet of snow. at the moment were should be coming to the end of one of the warmer cycles.

it is almost certain that mankind is responsible for temperature change outside of the normal scheme of things though, the population has rocketed, and most of the six billion people burn fossil fuel for energy, for sure i dont belive the hype of greenpeace that we have produced enough carbon for the earth to take 10,000 years to sequester, even if we stop tomorrow, but its going to do somthing.

Global warming probably does exist, though it is not likley that its all down to us, even so we have far worse things to worry about, water, food and land will soon become commodities that will be fought over, after all at our rate of consumption of those things we'd need five earths to support us long term - yikes!
 
I think that it exists but like many of you said I agree that its a cycle. Its more likely that many of the governments are makin git a big issue just to take from us more money from our pockets
 
desellerization i think that's how it's spelt. that's the one that worries me.
 
I call it governmental brainwashing, otherwise commonly known as dictatorship. Do what you're told, think what you;re told to think and believe what you're thinking.

Funny how everything the UK does to limit Global warming comes at the consumer's expense.
 
global warming and the ice age are intertwinned with each other and its to do with the world spinning on an axis, because of gravity and all that holla bullooo up there in space, the earth wobbles on its axis from time to time, because of this, our position towards the sun changes, and thats why its freezing 1 year, and normal the next, i mean, when was the last time we got weather that bad in january? the big freeze, bet you it will be normal next

another side to global warming is, the sun been a gas giant, its always swelling meaning more heat, also we are been pulled towards the sun because of its gravity,

an example, death vally is the hottest place on earth, it was a lake 100s of years ago back when there was no pollution to cause global warming, and that still evapurated

i watch alot of space documenteries on the discovery, anyone into that sort of stuff will understand what im on about and also agree, global warming is nothing to do with man, no mater what we do, we cant change it, and the only thing car fumes and carbon footfrints harm, is whatever lives on earth
 
prevtec said:
global warming and the ice age are intertwinned with each other and its to do with the world spinning on an axis, because of gravity and all that holla bullooo up there in space, the earth wobbles on its axis from time to time, because of this, our position towards the sun changes, and thats why its freezing 1 year, and normal the next, i mean, when was the last time we got weather that bad in january? the big freeze, bet you it will be normal next

another side to global warming is, the sun been a gas giant, its always swelling meaning more heat, also we are been pulled towards the sun because of its gravity,

an example, death vally is the hottest place on earth, it was a lake 100s of years ago back when there was no pollution to cause global warming, and that still evapurated

i watch alot of space documenteries on the discovery, anyone into that sort of stuff will understand what im on about and also agree, global warming is nothing to do with man, no mater what we do, we cant change it, and the only thing car fumes and carbon footfrints harm, is whatever lives on earth
Click to expand...

Spot on
 
Of course we can't! There's only 80 years worth of oil left to change it with anyway. Once that lot's spent up there's no chance of doing any further damage.
 
HDi fun said:
All this fuss and we're still not clear whether global warming actually exists.

(Waynne snipped this discussion from our thread about new cars CO2 ratings as I think this makes a worth topic for debate.)
Click to expand...

I think it is extremely arrogant of mankind to think they are SOOOO significant as to change the weather of the world. If one takes their head out of the sand or that other nether region and considers the millions of galaxies that do a celestial dance around one another and the fact that our own solar system is in revolution within our own Milky Way galaxy it is easy to see how our tiny planet may go through global climate change within our own galaxy. No one knows for sure the different temperatures within our galaxy at a given position, so to me climate change attributed to green house gases is nothing more than mass mind manipulation with a hidden agenda by government and big business. Climate change attibuted to green house gases is the 20th century's FLAT earth, theoretical, hypothetical NONSENSE to put it very mildly. It is incredible that so many intelligent people can believe such lies, and to allow themselves to be so manipulated yet claim to be free thinking. It is really disgusting~!~!
Do a simple experiment, take a metal coat hanger and instead of cutting it bend it back and forth until it breaks, the ends will get so hot that you will not be able to hold or put your fingers near where it breaks. The earth's is wobbling on it's axis and is out by a few degrees every year from the last, could not something so simple explain the change in weather? Or mayabe it's our solar system passing another star within our galaxy that has increased the temperature by a few degrees? A couple of degrees and everyone is getting bent outa shape? How incredibly stupid can people be?
As for me, I live in Canada where it really cold in the weather and I say we could use some "global warming" here. If it sounds like I am mocking the moronic "scientists" who tout global warming, yes indeed I am, I also want them to make the earth flat again and make the sun revolve around the earth.....~!~!~!~!
 
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Those arguments are pretty poor to be frank, jetlag700.

Average termperature in space is low. Less than 3K to be accurate. It does up a little in proximity to a solar body, but not at the 4.2 light-years of distance we have between ourselves and Proxima Centauri.

Temperature cannot travel in space as there is no matter for it to travel through, so what we get are rays of EMF radiation which can travel through space. When they strike an object, some of the energy translates to heat.

Rays striking the Earth, with no other factors involved would see average temperatures drop by at 33 degrees centigrade (up from 20 when first discovered) - which is how "Global Warming" and the "Greenhouse Effect" were first discovered 190ish years ago.

Indeed, solar activity being responsible for temperature changes was formally discounted in the 1970s, when the current global warming trend became most noticable.

Humans are most certainly responsible for the massive increase in Carbon Dioxide since direct atmospheric measurements began in the 1950s. Without humans the current level of Carbon Dioxide production would be -17Gt per annum. Factor in Humans and the value is +12Gt per annum.

Add in satellites, which find that *less* heat energy is reflecting from Earth proportionally to the increase in Carbon Dioxide and we have very good evidence that humans are responsible for the increase in global warming.

TL,DR: Most hypotheses put forward by laymen are so bad that it's a waste of time having to disconstruct and disprove them.
 
exactly, like with the economic crisis and the swine flu.
western countrys got richer by drinking our blood.
and except that, the rich people got even more richer, by firing as more workers as they can.
thanks globalism, you're the #!#!#!#!!
 
HDi fun said:
Of course we can't! There's only 80 years worth of oil left to change it with anyway. Once that lot's spent up there's no chance of doing any further damage.
Click to expand...
and does that mean global warming will reverse its actions? oh please:toung:
 
WLBjork said:
Those arguments are pretty poor to be frank, jetlag700.

Average termperature in space is low. Less than 3K to be accurate. It does up a little in proximity to a solar body, but not at the 4.2 light-years of distance we have between ourselves and Proxima Centauri.

Temperature cannot travel in space as there is no matter for it to travel through, so what we get are rays of EMF radiation which can travel through space. When they strike an object, some of the energy translates to heat.

Rays striking the Earth, with no other factors involved would see average temperatures drop by at 33 degrees centigrade (up from 20 when first discovered) - which is how "Global Warming" and the "Greenhouse Effect" were first discovered 190ish years ago.

Indeed, solar activity being responsible for temperature changes was formally discounted in the 1970s, when the current global warming trend became most noticable.

Humans are most certainly responsible for the massive increase in Carbon Dioxide since direct atmospheric measurements began in the 1950s. Without humans the current level of Carbon Dioxide production would be -17Gt per annum. Factor in Humans and the value is +12Gt per annum.

Add in satellites, which find that *less* heat energy is reflecting from Earth proportionally to the increase in Carbon Dioxide and we have very good evidence that humans are responsible for the increase in global warming.

TL,DR: Most hypotheses put forward by laymen are so bad that it's a waste of time having to disconstruct and disprove them.
Click to expand...
bull #!#!#!#!, the earth heels itself, when they launched a rocket into space, it blows a massive hole in our atmoshere, or ozone lare but after 24 hours, the earth fixes it, global warming has nothing to do with the way we live, its just apart of our planet
 
WLBjork said:
Those arguments are pretty poor to be frank, jetlag700.

Average termperature in space is low. Less than 3K to be accurate. It does up a little in proximity to a solar body, but not at the 4.2 light-years of distance we have between ourselves and Proxima Centauri.

Temperature cannot travel in space as there is no matter for it to travel through, so what we get are rays of EMF radiation which can travel through space. When they strike an object, some of the energy translates to heat.

Rays striking the Earth, with no other factors involved would see average temperatures drop by at 33 degrees centigrade (up from 20 when first discovered) - which is how "Global Warming" and the "Greenhouse Effect" were first discovered 190ish years ago.

Indeed, solar activity being responsible for temperature changes was formally discounted in the 1970s, when the current global warming trend became most noticable.

Humans are most certainly responsible for the massive increase in Carbon Dioxide since direct atmospheric measurements began in the 1950s. Without humans the current level of Carbon Dioxide production would be -17Gt per annum. Factor in Humans and the value is +12Gt per annum.

Add in satellites, which find that *less* heat energy is reflecting from Earth proportionally to the increase in Carbon Dioxide and we have very good evidence that humans are responsible for the increase in global warming.

TL,DR: Most hypotheses put forward by laymen are so bad that it's a waste of time having to disconstruct and disprove them.
Click to expand...

Yeah you're right~!~!~! The earth is flat, the sun revolves around the earth, there are little green men on Mars, oh yeah, when you capture one of those little green men make sure they go for a DNA test, I am sure they will have the same DNA that most of the GREEN house gasers have~!~!~!
 
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prevtec said:
global warming and the ice age are intertwinned with each other and its to do with the world spinning on an axis, because of gravity and all that holla bullooo up there in space, the earth wobbles on its axis from time to time, because of this, our position towards the sun changes, and thats why its freezing 1 year, and normal the next, i mean, when was the last time we got weather that bad in january? the big freeze, bet you it will be normal next

another side to global warming is, the sun been a gas giant, its always swelling meaning more heat, also we are been pulled towards the sun because of its gravity,

an example, death vally is the hottest place on earth, it was a lake 100s of years ago back when there was no pollution to cause global warming, and that still evapurated

i watch alot of space documenteries on the discovery, anyone into that sort of stuff will understand what im on about and also agree, global warming is nothing to do with man, no mater what we do, we cant change it, and the only thing car fumes and carbon footfrints harm, is whatever lives on earth
Click to expand...
Finally a guy who doesn't believe in little green men and green house gases.
 
i think global warming does exist, drastic climate change has happened many times before and can take as little as a decade once the balance has been tipped " so the scientists tell us "
But while the developing world i.e. china, india mainly are pumping out more rubbish into the atmosphere than any amount of high fuel consumption cars we drive, and also refuse to go as green as the rest of the world would like.
Makes you ask youself " why should i buy some bloody awfull low emission car when i could be having a ball with something meaty and definately not green.
what do you think ?
 
prevtec said:
bull #!#!#!#!, the earth heels itself, when they launched a rocket into space, it blows a massive hole in our atmoshere, or ozone lare but after 24 hours, the earth fixes it, global warming has nothing to do with the way we live, its just apart of our planet
Click to expand...

Nice irrelevent argument there. (For the record, the Earth would move 0.01mm if full boost were applied directly to the Earth for 20s, and the Earth does not fix the atmosphere.)



To put it very simply:

Direct observations find that CO2 is rising sharply due to human activity. Satellite and surface measurements find less energy is escaping to space at CO2 absorption wavelengths. Ocean and surface temperature measurements find the planet continues to accumulate heat. This gives a line of empirical evidence that human CO2 emissions are causing global warming.
 
i doubt any of this will be relavent once the Hydrogen Fuel cell has been properly designed.

As far as i know the biggest problem with the Hydrogen Fuel cell is the storage of the Hydrogen.

once that problem is over come CO2 emmisions produced by humans will drasticaly fall as all it produces is water.
 
erm
how do you get hydrogen.
i know you can get it by splitting water using electicity.
and where does electricity come from...................................
oil fired, gas fired or coal fired powerstations and they produce co2. oops
 
coupe said:
erm
how do you get hydrogen.
i know you can get it by splitting water using electicity.
and where does electricity come from...................................
oil fired, gas fired or coal fired powerstations and they produce co2. oops
Click to expand...


It would start off as a combination but once you have the hydrogen to use the fuel cell you can use it to make more, eliminating the need for Oil/Coal/Gas or even Nuculer power, once the process has been refined.
 
Global warming is a farce, too much media hype and real information is not easily accessible. Al Gore is an idiot, full stop. The majority of ''scientific findings'' aren't by real scientists and are most often swayed by monitary pay outs.

Pretty much everything i hear about global warming gets me in a properly annoyed mood, I'm a scientist (a pretty good one too :lol:) and i find that either the experimental data is wrong, manipulated or not credible to the scientific community.

This is not to say that the earth isn't changing, it is. Always has and always will, but we give ourselves (the human race) a bit too much credit in thinking that we can change the planet. CO2 levels have risen, but the earth as an entity is more than capable of sustaining balance. Look into the earths' history, and how many times organisms have been wiped out. I dont remember seeing dinosaurs driving 4x4's and bringing about mass extinction at the end of the cretaceous period.

Everyone has an opinion, but make sure you read the facts.
 
The majority of ''scientific findings'' aren't by real scientists and are most often swayed by monitary pay outs.

Of course they aren't real. No-one is going to get a grant to go out and prove that it's a load of cobblers.

I was going to say 'load of hot air', but that's just too obvious.
 
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