264 STK Cam on Corsa

[GetzCrazy123]

I installed a STK 264 cam in my Corsa C 1.4 over the weekend. Since then I am struggle to get the car to idle. I replaced the idle control valve and that made a huge difference. Once the car is on temperature the idling drops to around 450 RPM and I am unable to get it higher. Also I have lost a lot of power. The car struggles to pull away.
Where the car was able to keep its speed(5th gear, 120 km/h) on a small uphill, it now loses between 15 and 20 Km/h on that same hill. Will it worth spending more money having a free flow, branches and a chip installed?

 

[GetzCrazy123]

When the car is idling the brakes is very hard as if the engine is not running at all

 

[stamford]

What type of cam is it? Sounds like you have fitted the wrong cam with little regard for what it can do or what else you may need to make the engine run correctly. Not all engines ecu's can handle certain cam timings and require a custom ecu as well as other parts to compliment it.

 

[GetzCrazy123]

The cam is made by a company in South Africa, called STK. It's a chilled cast cam. http://www.stk.co.za

 

[obi_waynne]

Have you altered the timing, mapping or fuelling?

 

[SLEEPER]

You cant just put a completely different camshaft in an engine and expect it to work perfectly without doing anything else.

 

[BluntyR5GTT]

your going to need make sure the timing is bang on this usually requires a vernier pulley and then your ecu will need to be remapped

 

[GetzCrazy123]

I have made not changes to the engine except for the new camshaft. I am using the standard cam pulley and ecu. Is the loss of power I am experiencing because of the fact that the car haven't been remapped yet. When I installed the cam I had the valves reseated, is it possible that it might not be sealing properly anymore?

 

[stamford]

Do you actually know the specification of the camshaft fitted? It's timings, overlaps and lift? If not then you have either bought what you asked for without knowing what it is suitable for or it has been mis-sold.

 

[davalav]

I was under the impression that removing/replacing or upgrading cams always needed to be re timed, regardless of Spec?

 

[adam1983]

I was under the impression that removing/replacing or upgrading cams always needed to be re timed, regardless of Spec?

Correct

I had 264s put in my car and it wouldn't idle in the stock throttle position. As a temp fix they changed the throttle cable position to give more revs on idle until I got to the garage for remap.
Had to drive cautiously and stay off boost as the timing was obviously not optimal with the new cams.

You will need a remap is what I'm saying in short. No way I would be driving around in it properly until it was done.

 

[davalav]

Correct

I had 264s put in my car and it wouldn't idle in the stock throttle position. As a temp fix they changed the throttle cable position to give more revs on idle until I got to the garage for remap.
Had to drive cautiously and stay off boost as the timing was obviously not optimal with the new cams.

You will need a remap is what I'm saying in short. No way I would be driving around in it properly until it was done.

Are Corsa C's a twin cam engine?

 

[GetzCrazy123]

No it's a SOHC 8v engine

 

[adam1983]

Are Corsa C's a twin cam engine?

Not sure mate. Just sharing my experiences.
I would have thought any changes that affect timing would need a remap.
I can tell you if mine is a twin cam engine though

 

[GetzCrazy123]

Is it nessary to have a vernier pulley when taking it for a remap

 

[stamford]

Is it nessary to have a vernier pulley when taking it for a remap

If fitting an aftermarket camshaft it is recommended otherwise how can you adjust the timing?

 

[SLEEPER]

Neccessary possibly not but a good idea definately YES

The whole point of using a different cam (presumably a higher/longer lift one ) is to change the power curve

As the valves will be opening at a different time to get the maximum benefit you need to adjust the ecu accordingly
Same with the valve timing . It will be different so adjusting it will also give a benefit . The vernier pulleys allow fine adjustment so are worth fitting in most cases.

When in doubt contact the suppliers of the cam They should definately know the answer so able to give you this information straight away.

 

[GetzCrazy123]

When the engine temp goes a little high and the fan kick in, the car won't idle at all and the car have no power. Can this also be an timing issue?

 

[davalav]

When the engine temp goes a little high and the fan kick in, the car won't idle at all and the car have no power. Can this also be an timing issue?

Your still running the car regardless of what we have said? Get it towed to your local mechanic.... and get it re timed and remapped!

 

[HDi fun]

It is, as you've been advised, due to the fact that you're running high lift, long duration cams with stock tuning. The ECU will be outside of its normal operating parameters until you get it mapped appropriately. Even so you're likely to have issues with poor idle quality, overheating and emissions controls.

Plus you are NOT getting the benefit of the 'wild' cam with the ECU trying to keep everything else close to standard as possible.

A vernier pulley on the camshaft(s) will help so that fine timind adjustments can be made.

It's not for nothing that many many engines now incorporate variable valve timing for both intake and exhaust valves independently.

Get it to a specialist is the advice.

 

[GetzCrazy123]

I had my car remapped yesterday, made a massive difference. I still can't get it to idle though

 

[BAD63R]

Cammed cars can sound very rough on idle, especially mine being a V6 and needing 4 cams lol. Sounds to me like you haven't considered what you have done to the fueling. If the engine is single over head cam, then a vaneir pully will only either advance timing, or retard the timing. Vaneirs on a double over head cam or quad over head cam, allows you to advance the inlet cams, and retard the exhaust cams giving you a huge increase in combustion and there for more power.

But from what you describe in the thread, I would say that the car is running very lean. You say it idles rough when cold but very hard to idle when warm? This would indicate the lack of fuel the engine now receives. Not quite enough when cold, and when warmed up when less fuel is needed its choking itself.

To do cams properly without vaneirs you need a better fuel pump, a better fuel pressure regulator, you wont need bigger injectors as you are not gaining massive power, then you should have got it mapped after uprating the fuel system to cope.

I would have you mechanic do a emissions test and see if its running lean and then go from there

 

[SLEEPER]

Well at least you have eventually taken the first part of the advice and surprise surprise your engine is running much better

High cams often make the car idle badly but

Maybe if you follow it completely...........................

 

[HDi fun]

Any high lift, long duration cam is going to compromise idle quality. Without variable valve timing (and even with it) you are likely going to have to raise the engine's idle speed to cope.

I am surprised that the remap didn't include this.

The reason for the poor idle is not directly linked to weak mixture. it is far more likely attributable to poor mixing of the fuel/air mixture and the long valve overlap.

Valve timing is ALWAYS a compromise.

 

[GetzCrazy123]

After driving the car on the open road this weekend, I have decided to remove the cam and put the standard back. At full throttle the car feels excellent, but when driving it normally it was better standards, it's not capable of keeping its speed on hills that wasn't a problem when it was standard. I going to try and have the head gasflowed and then remapped with the standard cam. Hopefully that will be better.

 

[GetzCrazy123]

Idiots that installed the chip didn't correct the timing. Is it necessary to have it retuned now that the timing have been correcte

 

[T9 man]

Idiots that installed the chip didn't correct the timing. Is it necessary to have it retuned now that the timing have been correcte

Buddy, you may have to face facts that what you are trying to achieve with the cams is very difficult to do, and it is really only to be utilised for certain driving situations/conditions. Your tuning company that installed the chip cannot even get the basics right of what the engine needs to have done i.e. correct timing.

Firstly, if I were you, I would seek another garage who actually employ mechanics and not amateur DIY'ers, this project is fast heading towards a fatal disaster to your engine if you are not careful.

These chaps here on TC represent the best of the best, so I am at a loss as to why you do not seem to be listening to them. Your current scenario with the garage can be likened to having your house rewired by an electrician from top to bottom, then having to tell him where to put the fuse in! :blink:

I will offer you this advice, take your time and do your research well. Listen to the guys who are going out of their way to help you.

Good luck to you and may there be a light at the end of the tunnel for this project.

 

[adam1983]

Exactly what T9 said. Always do your research before going into any project like this. Choosing a good tuner is one of the most important decisions to make to avoid issues in the future.
I would advise having a look on the internet for recommended tuners in your area. Next step would be to talk to them to see if what your asking for is possible for them to achieve. Personally I would also want to find out about previous results they have had on cars similar to yours. If possible talk to the owners and ask their experiences with the tuner and go from there.
It may cost you more to do it right first time but will cost you a lot more to do it twice to get it right