Your emergency braking tips

[obi_waynne]

What tips would you pass on for emergency braking situations?

Does ABS mean that Stamp and forget works better than Cadence in all situations?

Does ABS Stamp and swerve work better than Swerve and stamp when it comes to avoid a smash?

Does snow and ice throw away all the rules when it comes to braking?

 

[TCJBOLDIE]

Obi San in an emergency stop scenario IMO there is no need to cadence brake in any car that has ABS as you will increase the stopping distance and or the speed of impact if you hit something.

"Swerve and stamp " will almost certainly result in a spin/loss of control as this was the method I used in an emergency lane change demonstration at driver training showing what can /will happen if one does it the wrong way as not only are you unbalancing the car with a sudden swerve which throws weight onto one side and then braking HARD which also throws weight forward thereby lightening the rear end at the same time resulting in a spin.

Modern electronic stability control electronics will help prevent loss of control in the above scenario.

It saddens me that electronics are reducing the levels of driver skills required and drivers may be lulled into thinking they are better than they really are especially and can get into trouble in an emergency situation if they have to drive an older car that does not have any electronic nannies .

Maybe I am just an old dinosaur

There are even hill start assist gizmos so the driver doesn't have to know how to correctly use the handbrake to prevent rolling back on a hill start for goodness sake
what next driverless cars I see them coming in the not too distant future but by then I will probably be increasing the boost in my turbo powered mobility scooter and terrorizing the residents in some retirement village or nursing home

 

[HDi fun]

My car has a hill start thing. This is simply to account for the fact that there is no proper hand applied brake. It works well enough. All this to make way for a silly little storage compartment which would not be possible if a perfectly sensible hand-brake was used instead.

On ABS I do thing it's a net benefit overall. In some situations it can indeed increase your stopping distance, but not by much. ABS can control each of the four wheels independently, something no human can do without some seriously prosthetic additional limbs. Whether we have the brain cells to control these extra limbs is questionable at best.

Electronics do not displace driver skills whatsoever. That is not the intention - they are designed to complement driver skills. Sadly this is not what the masses think. The masses don't think. That's the problem.

It is very tempting to bury the brake pedal in a panic stop, most people will do this almost instinctively. ABS reduces the risk of total loss of directional control in this situation.

There are many other driving skills required, and the most significant is looking ahead and engaging brain before engaging any gear at all.

On balance, I'd rather have ABS as standard on all road cars (as it pretty much is) because it reduces the risk of loss of directional control in general.

Further, I'd rather everyone have ABS so that even if I don't need it at a specific point in time, someone might in order to avoid bending my car or me.

Same with ESP, DSC, whatever it's called. Some systems are very forgiving, some are overly invasive but in general it's a good thing.

People who complain that all these aids are constantly interfering with their driving style should reconsider their driving style. Or buy some better tyres. . . .

If people really do believe that the electronic driving aids are displacing or replacing their own driving skills then I suggest that all they stop driving immediately and indefinitely. Clearly their driving skills maybe aren't so special after all....

 

[TCJBOLDIE]

I don't dispute that all the driving aids contribute to overall road safety in any way shape or form.

What I am saying is that with all the electronics people don't need or have to develop as much as a feel for what the car is doing now to maintain proper control and can be a good/bad thing depending on ones point of view IMHO.

ABS can increase stopping distances dramatically on very loose surfaces a fact which not generally known by the vast majority of drivers especially those who have not had to apply heavy/emergency braking on other than on tarmac IMO

 

[HDi fun]

It has never been said that ABS reduces stopping distances.

Having grown up with cars with no driver aids I find that it's easy to work out what's going on between tyres and road surface. It's a balance and feel thing. I don't find the aids intervening in my driving very often at all. Maybe a couple of times a year at most.

I do, however, intentionally provoke the ESP, DSC (whatever it's called this week) into action once in a while just to see how it responds. It does it's job. To a point. All systems are not the same. What I will add is that I can make faster and safer progress without triggering electronic intervention. If it does intervene without me intentionally provoking it then I really am pushing a bit too hard.

 

[TCJBOLDIE]

ABS can deliver shorter stopping distances over a non ABS car that has total lock up on wet tarmac.
At driver training we have demonstrated this on occasion.

IIRC ABS was originally developed so drivers could still steer when applying max brake pedal pressure in a panic and hopefully avoid hitting something PROVIDED that they are LOOKING WHERE THEY WANTED TO GO AND NOT AT WHAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO HIT.

Note the caps are not me shouting just highlighting an important point

PS IMO not everybody has our passion and feel for what the car is doing and being totally involved in the process of what it takes to be a skilled driver that is aware of both their own and cars limitations as well as situation ally aware of the prevailing weather,traffic flow,grip levels etc

 

[HDi fun]

Caps is fine!!

The original ABS concept was for commercial aircraft as it enabled planes to land on shorter runways.

Later it was adopted by the road haulage industry and applied simply to the wheel set of an articulated tractor - trailer set. Commonly referred to as anti jack knife mechanism.

It came to passenger cars relatively late and like all these technologies the laws of physics still reign supreme. All ABS does is make the best use of the available grip.

It's not a brain substitute in the same way that indicators aren't

 

[TCJBOLDIE]

Thanks for the ABS history lesson
I remember MB chiefs being shocked when one of our rally champions out-braked an ABS equipped MB in a non ABS car by cadence braking on loose gravel and they reportedly asked the boffins to re-calibrate the system to improve its performance on loose surfaces.

PS hopefully we might find some common ground re all the electronic aids in modern cars and agree that just maybe "reverse parking assist" is reducing driver skills somewhat

 

[HDi fun]

Parking isn't really a driving skill. It's something we have to do when we stop driving.

I quite like having the proximity sensors, though I can manage perfectly well without them.

I worry more about the fact that people grind tyre sidewalls and wheel rims against the kerb whilst parking. Surely not ideal!!

TCJB, I think we share the same common ground already.

 

[TCJBOLDIE]

Cheers mate
Proximity sensors are almost a must have seeing many new cars with long sloping screens mean that the front of the car is out of sight along with reversing cameras a must have safety feature to help prevent drivers reversing over children and bikes etc.

I have a small reversing camera that I fitted to mt 4x4 Colorado that sits above the rear plate and is aimed at the tow ball when reverse is engaged to help in hooking up my car trailer and works like a charm .

 

[T9 man]

I rely on my rear parking sensors a lot on my SAAB, the angle means you just cannot judge where your rear end is Then her indoors almost had a mishap in the beast while reversing it once
I immediately had a rear view colour camera fitted and connected it up to a rear view mirror monitor for totally "idiot-proof-ness"

 

[HDi fun]

That's another thing that's failed on mine. ONE, yes just ONE of the front sensors is duff and because of this the car disables the whole system!!! I bet VW would prefer me to replace all eight!!

 

[Yugguy]

Clench buttocks, press brake pedal as hard as physically possible.

 

[HDi fun]

This is why emergency brake assist has been introduced. Too many driver don't brake hard enough soon enough and thus don't actually attain maximum brake force.