Younger Drivers - Incorrect instructions?

bigbadjoe

Pro Tuner
Points
0
Location
Elgin - Scotland
Car
Evo 8 @ 400bhp
The last week, I have been in a car with two younger drivers (17-19yo) and the experience was not pleasant. Now, I know I own a 4WD car, but surly the technique should be the same.

I'm talking about cornering. The two (who are boy racer types) seem to accelerate up to a corner, then turn in and break if need be as they were going round the corner. I'm not talking about your usual drive, I'm talking about people trying to go fast.

I'm my eye's this can cause terrible affects when it comes to handling and speed. I have always been told, to go fast round a corner, you break first (change gear if need be), then accelerate around and out of the corner, giving you fast exit speed.

These guys who were trying to go fast were coasting to the corner, then they would find out they were going to fast, then break halfway around and unable to change gear as there hands were gripping the wheel to hard, giving them a slow exit speed. Is this what instructors are teaching them these days, or is it just that they are clown's? :confused:
 
(Road) instructors generally shouldn't teach their pupils to drive fast, ever, but that being said the two you speak of, their technique is absolutley atrocious and likely to end them in a ditch or worse in the front of another car,

Brake in a straight line, change down and turn in, plant the throttle when you can see the exit and away you go

braking half way round a bend is just idiotic
 
(Road) instructors generally shouldn't teach their pupils to drive fast, ever, but that being said the two you speak of, their technique is absolutley atrocious and likely to end them in a ditch or worse in the front of another car,

Brake in a straight line, change down and turn in, plant the throttle when you can see the exit and away you go

braking half way round a bend is just idiotic

My instructer used to take me to a sharp corner and teach us exactly that. You were only doing about 20 but it was the techneque they were teaching, not the speed.

Im quite a good passinger, but there driving poo'd me up.
 
Police system of car control is exactly what you are saying. Separate everything. In general brake straight, steer late seems to work.

Get your gear selection out the way before committing to the corner.

This palming the wheel with RH and clinging on to stick with LH looks ridiculous. Brake, steer and gear at the same time is the finest way possible to totally de-stabilise a car.
 
sounds wrong to me, theyll be in the A & E before long unfortunatley.

so whats the cure then ? i have 2 suggestions :-

1. let them be in a test car driving at 30 mph and hit a wall
2. let them teach themselves till they come a cropper !!!!

mean, but will get the desired affect i think.
 
It's not just young drivers. There are numbers aplenty of drivers with poor observation and with poor attitude to driving right across the board.

It's not just young drivers who cause problems. Some young drivers are very very good indeed.

And some self appointed experts, supposedly experienced drivers, are hideously scary.

There is no pattern. Or, if there is a pattern, I have yet to discover what that pattern is
 
The old racing adage - Slow in fast out. For novice racing drivers the idea is to get the car 'set' so everthing is stable as you enter the corner. When you reach the apex you can start to accelerate as you drift (the proper use of the word) out to the outside of the track.

On the road it is probably best to keep the car 'set' until you exit the bend as there is usually no room to drift! Heavy acceleration or braking upsets the car's balance and can have unexpected and unwanted consequencies!

It is a little more involved and complicated (using both throttle and brake at the same time - heal and toeing - for example) if you want to go really fast, but learn the basics first. The trouble is that when young you think you know it all when you actually know SFA.
 
Young lads tend to think that sudden, jerky steering and using the brakes and accelerator as on-off devices makes them look like racing drivers. It doesnt, it makes them look like what they are, stupid, inexperienced idiots.

I see so many people braking in corners which makes me think they have no real understanding of what a car is actually doing. This does stop, this does go, this does turning, that's the limit of their knowledge.
 
Doing what they're doing may also cause the brakes to lock, then they won't be stopping at all.

I did just that on a car park in the wet. And ploughed right into a van.
Learned my lesson and am a better driver for it.
I think A-levels in maths and physics as well as having a good understanding of how a car works is good for being a 'good driver'

The van just got in the way of my amazing understeering, locked up skid that's all :cheesy:
 
Modern cars generally have incredible levels of lateral grip and will take abuse without putting up a fight.

But that's not to say they should be driven sloppily. Nor should they be taken to the point of breakaway in everyday driving.
 
Ok so tell me if I am doing it wrong, please?

Into a turn I brake to slow down, down-shift, turn the wheel into the turn, and give a twitch on the hand-brake just after.

Then if the car drifts, I turn the wheel towards the drift, and straighten it when i am aligned, then i step on it...

Been doing that for almost 15 yrs, but I hope to pick up some pointers here, if you may be so kind?........

Much Obliged!
 
Ok so tell me if I am doing it wrong, please?

Into a turn I brake to slow down, down-shift, turn the wheel into the turn, and give a twitch on the hand-brake just after.

Then if the car drifts, I turn the wheel towards the drift, and straighten it when i am aligned, then i step on it...

Been doing that for almost 15 yrs, but I hope to pick up some pointers here, if you may be so kind?........

Much Obliged!

It's entirely up to you and I think your post is presented in humour :)

I've been driving for over 24 years without the need to involve the hand-brake as a means of adjusting the cornering attitude, balance, or stance of a car which is negotiating a corner, bend, or other change of direction away from the straight ahead.

Handbrake 'assisted' steering does have a use in off road rally competition driving; and also does have a use in emergency evasive driving.

But for general on-road driving it's probably not essential for most of us.

If you are struggling with understeer then there is another option - slow down a little bit more before committing to a deviation from straight ahead. That way you can exit the bend/corner under harder acceleration.
 
Ah! I thank you for the tip on under steer, but I assure you, my query was not in jest, as, mebbe I have not perfected the technique enuf, or just that I am doing it wrong.

And what you may consider off-road in you part of the world, it the normal highway driving here, where I come from.

So please be assured that this question was put in all earnestness, and not just in jest.

Because due to the fact that my present job requires some occasional hard bit of driving, I have noticed lately that some veterans I seek to apprehend, are a lot more deft at the wheel than I.

Now it would be a bit embarrassing to ask the guy at the wheel of the vehicle I am chasing, when I apprehend him, just how he managed a turn, don't you think?..


Thus the question, having faith in our forums!
 
Last edited:
@ HDi fun

You see, Sir, in India we do not have a lot of high powered cars that are so easily available to yourselves.

With that in mind, driving a high powered car would draw attention, more than is considered "healthy" in our trade, because it would warn the mark, and that is something that is not acceptable, as it beats the purpose.

Thus, our only advantage is the roads themselves and the narrow turn-offs, where we hope to catch them before they actually hit the open roads, at which point it would have been better if we had not even begun the chase.........

I hope you understand, and see that no offense is intended....

Again, thanks.
 
Ah! I thank you for the tip on under steer, but I assure you, my query was not in jest, as, mebbe I have not perfected the technique enuf, or just that I am doing it wrong.

And what you may consider off-road in you part of the world, it the normal highway driving here, where I come from.

So please be assured that this question was put in all earnestness, and not just in jest.

Because due to the fact that my present job requires some occasional hard bit of driving, I have noticed lately that some veterans I seek to apprehend, are a lot more deft at the wheel than I.

Now it would be a bit embarrassing to ask the guy at the wheel of the vehicle I am chasing, when I apprehend him, just how he managed a turn, don't you think?..


Thus the question, having faith in our forums!

That's a fine response and I thank you for just that.

I do not have experience of driving in your part of the World so cannot comment directly upon road surfaces, driving habits etc etc.

However, it is possible that you will be able to maintain pace without resorting to provoking a slight loss of rear wheel lateral grip.

During the time you're applying a bit of rear-wheel-only braking (with the handbrake) you could instead be applying power to the driven wheels (whether, front or rear) much sooner during the cornering process with both hands on the wheel as well.

This also allows you to be ready to re-assess your intentions immediately, should your 'target' make a sudden change of plan. This is simply because you're already in the correct gear for maximum acceleration - no need to come down the box again - and you're well set to change you driving plan to deal with it.
 
Now that is the pearl of wisdom I was hoping to get from our group here, I have you to thank for that.

Now, though I have understood it, lemme try that out on the next occasion, and see how it goes.

Updates after the event.....

Your advice is much appreciated, my fellow forum visitor, AND Moderator.

Many Thanks.
 
The road isn't really the place to be exploiting the limit of adhesion anyway.

We have our own set of idiots around here and they're not all young.

Exactly the same in my neighbourhood too i'm afraid!

Unfortunately it seems that a tradgedy must occur before lessons are learn't :(
 
Oh, I got you.

I just think, if you are getting instructed, they should teach you in the correct manner. I mean, you are not going to dirve everywhere at 40mph when you pass your test, so they should push you to drive at 60, and slow down for corners. I know my instructor did. But all the learner drivers now days seem to sit at 40 everywhere they go.

I am aware that there are one or two driving instructors use this site, so if you wouldn't mind telling us what you teach your guys please.
 
I, too, can't see the sense in driving 20mph below the speed limit all the time. Instructors differ widely amongst themselves in their approach to what speed to use on a derestricted road.

Generally it's good practice to drive to the speed limit if conditions allow.
 

Similar threads


Please watch this on my YouTube channel & Subscribe.


Back
Top