tracking

[prevtec]

can anybody explain how tracking should be properly done??
and dont answer me with ( a laser system) im talking about no.

you see, my brother tracked my car on tuesday last but the car feels ropey, why is this?? the car does drive and brake in a straight line

when i got the bushing kit installed, it was tracked again, but by the quallified mechanic thats there, and it felt solid (perfect)

the differance
my brother done it by bringing the 2 front wheels to 0 on each side
then added up the no. on the back, it was 4 on each side.. his method for that is add the 2 = 8, divide by 2 = 4 = equal no.= perfect

the other mechanic done the tracking by a book = the manufactors
-1 here plus 1 here, 3 and 4 there

also when both tracked the car, my steering wheel is not straight, a bit to the left, but the car drives in a straight line if left in that position



while on the subject, my brother also balanced all 4 wheels, but there a nasty wobble at 120 - 160 kph, could this be due to the tracking been ropey also??
it could be a buckle in the wheel, i hoped of a pothole ( perfect irish rd lol)
even though its balenced, would a buckle still efect the balancing even after it was balanced??
and how safe is it to have a buckled wheel on the back along with a wheel that dosent look buckled, but takes something like 200 in weights

hope this makes sense but if it dont ask me to be more clear in what im saying, because i do travel fast and i cant relax if my car isnt a 100 percent, so i need answers to WTH i should do

thanks in advance prevtec

 

[turbonutter69]

can anybody explain how tracking should be properly done??
and dont answer me with ( a laser system) im talking about no.

you see, my brother tracked my car on tuesday last but the car feels ropey, why is this?? the car does drive and brake in a straight line

when i got the bushing kit installed, it was tracked again, but by the quallified mechanic thats there, and it felt solid (perfect)

the differance
my brother done it by bringing the 2 front wheels to 0 on each side
then added up the no. on the back, it was 4 on each side.. his method for that is add the 2 = 8, divide by 2 = 4 = equal no.= perfect

the other mechanic done the tracking by a book = the manufactors
-1 here plus 1 here, 3 and 4 there

also when both tracked the car, my steering wheel is not straight, a bit to the left, but the car drives in a straight line if left in that position



while on the subject, my brother also balanced all 4 wheels, but there a nasty wobble at 120 - 160 kph, could this be due to the tracking been ropey also??
it could be a buckle in the wheel, i hoped of a pothole ( perfect irish rd lol)
even though its balenced, would a buckle still efect the balancing even after it was balanced??
and how safe is it to have a buckled wheel on the back along with a wheel that dosent look buckled, but takes something like 200 in weights

hope this makes sense but if it dont ask me to be more clear in what im saying, because i do travel fast and i cant relax if my car isnt a 100 percent, so i need answers to WTH i should do

thanks in advance prevtec

About the wheel wobble. There is a plastic circle that sits in your wheel. It's called a spigot wheel or something if this has been left out that will cause the wheel to wobble. A garage left it out by accident once in my mums car an it was like somethin had taken over the steering wheel

 

[gendox]

yea thats probly why my gf had somthing knocking and it was that part so i took it off to stop it and the car was a nutter

 

[stamford]

Tracking should be done using gauges to set each side against the chassis be it tow in or toe out. The steering wheel is always straight ahead and each side adjusted to the manufacturers specs as all cars have different settings. Remember lowering a car will also upset the geometry, so your camber maybe out too.

A rim can be easily dinked with a flat spot to cause wobble, a lost weight or indeed a missing spigot ring.

 

[HDi fun]

Tracking should be done with the steering wheel clamped straight ahead. Also, it's not enough to simply align the front wheels to some arbitrary line through the centre of the car. To be done properly the garage will fit optical devices to all four wheels.

If the rear is adjustable then this should be aligned first. Only then is the front aligned.

 

[prevtec]

About the wheel wobble. There is a plastic circle that sits in your wheel. It's called a spigot wheel or something if this has been left out that will cause the wheel to wobble. A garage left it out by accident once in my mums car an it was like somethin had taken over the steering wheel

i know the thing, il suss that out mate, thanks

 

[prevtec]

Tracking should be done using gauges to set each side against the chassis be it tow in or toe out. The steering wheel is always straight ahead and each side adjusted to the manufacturers specs as all cars have different settings. Remember lowering a car will also upset the geometry, so your camber maybe out too.

A rim can be easily dinked with a flat spot to cause wobble, a lost weight or indeed a missing spigot ring.

maybe thats why it was perfect when the other mechanic done it, he goes of the man handbook

 

[prevtec]

Tracking should be done with the steering wheel clamped straight ahead. Also, it's not enough to simply align the front wheels to some arbitrary line through the centre of the car. To be done properly the garage will fit optical devices to all four wheels.

If the rear is adjustable then this should be aligned first. Only then is the front aligned.

thanks hdi, il say that on saturday when the other mechanic is doing it

 

[prevtec]

so a wobble steering wheel is down to balancing or that ring ye guys are on about
also the steering wheel is clamped straight ahead before tracking, when its tracked its off to the left, what could this be??

 

[HDi fun]

If it's off to the left the the tracking is incorrectly set. Are they tracking fronts to rears or fronts to an imaginary line drawn along the length of the car?

You cannot track a vehicle to an imaginary line.

Refer to this article:

http://www.amdtechnik.com/technical.4wheelalignment.cfm

 

[prevtec]

If it's off to the left the the tracking is incorrectly set. Are they tracking fronts to rears or fronts to an imaginary line drawn along the length of the car?

You cannot track a vehicle to an imaginary line.

Refer to this article:

http://www.amdtechnik.com/technical.4wheelalignment.cfm

thanks hdi, so the mechanic that works off the manu handbook is doing it right, all cars have a different line, this explains how he comes up with the -2 and plus 4 for the back and so on

 

[turbonutter69]

thanks hdi, so the mechanic that works off the manu handbook is doing it right, all cars have a different line, this explains how he comes up with the -2 and plus 4 for the back and so on

It used to be done with things clamped to your wheels and mirrors. Nowadays most garages have got the laser technology which is as you know pinpoint acurate. I wouldn't trust the old method on modern cars as they as far more complex than older models. On newer cars if just 1 thing is out it may also throw something else out too. The wheel wobble is 1 of 3 things.
1. The spigot wheel.
2. Wheel balancing is out.
3. And the dangerous 1 check your wheel nuts are tight. Just to be safe that is.

 

[HDi fun]

Incorrect tracking feels totally different to any of those. It's a feeling of the car on tippy toes. Imagine trying to negotiate a downhill 180 degree hairpin with a fully loaded shopping trolley.

 

[old-git]

Incorrect tracking feels totally different to any of those. It's a feeling of the car on tippy toes. Imagine trying to negotiate a downhill 180 degree hairpin with a fully loaded shopping trolley.

Absolutely.

We recently bought an Astra 2litre turbo convertible for the wife. It has wide, low profile tyres and felt very twitchy, which I put down to the tyres having very little give in their walls.

However, when the front tyres were replaced the garage discovered that the wheels were toeing out 3-4 degrees! They corrected this and now it handles like a dream. This made sense as toe out inproves initial turn in to a corner but makes the car unstable in a straight line.

 

[HDi fun]

4 degrees is massive though. I know that torquey FWD cars benefit from a couple of decimal points of a degree toe out given the tendency for the front wheels to toe in under hard acceleration. I bet that the astra nearly met my theoretical loaded trolley analogy with 3-4 degrees toe out. It's surprising that the inside edge of the tread wasn't down to the metal.

 

[prevtec]

It used to be done with things clamped to your wheels and mirrors. Nowadays most garages have got the laser technology which is as you know pinpoint acurate. I wouldn't trust the old method on modern cars as they as far more complex than older models. On newer cars if just 1 thing is out it may also throw something else out too. The wheel wobble is 1 of 3 things.
1. The spigot wheel.
2. Wheel balancing is out.
3. And the dangerous 1 check your wheel nuts are tight. Just to be safe that is.

the nuts are all tight, the balancing was done also, so il check for the ring on saturday when its all been fixed

 

[prevtec]

Incorrect tracking feels totally different to any of those. It's a feeling of the car on tippy toes. Imagine trying to negotiate a downhill 180 degree hairpin with a fully loaded shopping trolley.

thats what it feels like, i know the difference between tracking and balancing so members keep tracking to tracking, and balancing to balancing
anyway hdi, thats what it feels like, and the type of car it is and whats done to it, it shouldnt feel like that, it was perfect when i had it done when the suspension kit was installed, i couldnt lose the car if i tried, now im afraid if i try, i wont be here talking to you anymore

that guide you gave today looked good so on sat when the qualified mech does it, should be back to normal, hopefully

 

[HDi fun]

It the car is geometrically intact then it will steer and drive beautifully after the whole unsprung mass is aligned correctly.

So often it's the case that the equipment the garage uses is absolutely fine, it's the attitude and ability of the operators of it that lets things down.

I don't know fi you have Kwik fit over there (I've not been to Ireland since 1998 ) but if you have, then avoid them totally. They couldn't align a pastry cutter to be quite honest.

 

[prevtec]

It the car is geometrically intact then it will steer and drive beautifully after the whole unsprung mass is aligned correctly.

So often it's the case that the equipment the garage uses is absolutely fine, it's the attitude and ability of the operators of it that lets things down.

I don't know fi you have Kwik fit over there (I've not been to Ireland since 1998 ) but if you have, then avoid them totally. They couldn't align a pastry cutter to be quite honest.

we do mate and they should be called kwik fix = dont last long

back to the tracking and the system they use has just been calibrated
i guess my brother just cant do it properly, he is a 1st year apprentice aswell so im getting steve to do it for me, when he done it last, it was perfect

 

[HDi fun]

It seems that you've had some recent experiences with poor quality workmanship. Aligning modern cars (and we can take in some from 10-12 years ago) cannot be done by guessing the amount of spanner on nut on thread turns. You have to get that thrust line pointing straight ahead other wise your car will go one way on trailing throttle and t'other under acceleration.

I am a very fussy driver and if I cannot remove my hands from the steering wheel for hundreds of yards when driving on a truly flat straight road then the tracking calibration is not adequate for me.

It makes a massive difference to the feel of a car whilst driving it.

 

[prevtec]

It seems that you've had some recent experiences with poor quality workmanship. Aligning modern cars (and we can take in some from 10-12 years ago) cannot be done by guessing the amount of spanner on nut on thread turns. You have to get that thrust line pointing straight ahead other wise your car will go one way on trailing throttle and t'other under acceleration.

I am a very fussy driver and if I cannot remove my hands from the steering wheel for hundreds of yards when driving on a truly flat straight road then the tracking calibration is not adequate for me.

It makes a massive difference to the feel of a car whilst driving it.

oh big time mate, i cant enjoy my spins if my car isnt 100 percent
with all the rd deaths and #!#!#!#! over here, im very paticular about car maintanance, its my life at the end of the day

 

[obi_waynne]

Tyre pressures can also make a massive difference here so check that these are spot on before you begin.

 

[HDi fun]

I also hate the situation that arises if you're forced to replace just one front tyre as a result or an unrepairable puncture. Even a couple of mm difference in tread depth can upset the handling

 

[turbonutter69]

I also hate the situation that arises if you're forced to replace just one front tyre as a result or an unrepairable puncture. Even a couple of mm difference in tread depth can upset the handling

Yup I know that 1. I normally do both if I can afford it though...

 

[HDi fun]

I always replace in pairs or all four but obviously you can't do this if you get a puncture in the shoulder

 

[turbonutter69]

I always replace in pairs or all four but obviously you can't do this if you get a puncture in the shoulder

For some reason I had loads of them last year. But when I was short on cash I just put a budget on until I could afford to replace them both with the same tyre.

 

[HDi fun]

In 2007 I had 3 unrepairables in a row. COntinental Premium Contacts aren't cheap :-(

I think it was due to some building work going on up the road, a lot of contractors aren't too careful with nails and screws when loading/unloading their vehicles - I think this was the cause.

 

[turbonutter69]

In 2007 I had 3 unrepairables in a row. COntinental Premium Contacts aren't cheap :-(

I think it was due to some building work going on up the road, a lot of contractors aren't too careful with nails and screws when loading/unloading their vehicles - I think this was the cause.

I had 3 go at once cause some git slashed them at night outside my flat

 

[HDi fun]

Don't get too much of that around here thankfully. You should be able to make an insurance claim for that type of damage

 

[prevtec]

I also hate the situation that arises if you're forced to replace just one front tyre as a result or an unrepairable puncture. Even a couple of mm difference in tread depth can upset the handling

i have 2 brand new tyres on the front, and their the same brand as the back which are 25 percent worn

 

[prevtec]

Tyre pressures can also make a massive difference here so check that these are spot on before you begin.

il make sure of that, thanks mate

 

[prevtec]

I had 3 go at once cause some git slashed them at night outside my flat

bastards

 

[prevtec]

right, took of the front wheel today and noticed it was missing that sig ring,
i had some spare in my shed so i put 1 in the wheel, to find out it wont go over the nut on the hub=its too small
so i said what il do is take the 1 off the back wheel to get a match to what i need, only to find there was none on that either, i didnt even bother to take of the other 2 wheels as id say their missing too,

would this be the reason that even though it was just tracked and balanced, the car feels ropey, and vibrates at high speeds??
oh god my brother, i still love him though and it gets better as he said since i lost them, il get you new 1s... easily know the resestion isnt efecting him

by the way, how much are these rings for 4, rang a place today and got priced 30 euros
is that good??

 

[turbonutter69]

right, took of the front wheel today and noticed it was missing that sig ring,
i had some spare in my shed so i put 1 in the wheel, to find out it wont go over the nut on the hub=its too small
so i said what il do is take the 1 off the back wheel to get a match to what i need, only to find there was none on that either, i didnt even bother to take of the other 2 wheels as id say their missing too,

would this be the reason that even though it was just tracked and balanced, the car feels ropey, and vibrates at high speeds??
oh god my brother, i still love him though and it gets better as he said since i lost them, il get you new 1s... easily know the resestion isnt efecting him

by the way, how much are these rings for 4, rang a place today and got priced 30 euros
is that good??

You talking about the spigot wheel? I have never had to buy any but i'd say that price sounds fair. If you are talking about the spigot wheel then yes that is why it feels ropey and vibrates that is exactly what happens when you leave the spigot wheel out...

 

[prevtec]

ok then, got my car tracked and balanced today and heres my conclusion

as waynne said: make sure your tyre pressure is spot on
as turbo nutter said: you need to have the spigot ring on all wheels
as hdi showed me from an article he found: the car has to be tracked using a line that goes through the car. every cars line is different

steve my mechanic gave me the whole lot today,

first the car was tracked, thats the easy part
then he done the tracking,

he first put the car on the ramp and turned the steering wheel from left to right a couple of times, (this method pumps the steering fluid through and in a sense gets any air out of the system)

he then tied the steering wheel using a clamp in the straigfht foward position
the engine was left running through out this procedure (its easier to do the track rods)

after lining up the 4 wheels with the laser system, he tracked it, but he had the manufactors reccomendations booklet and went off them readings

the car is perfect and tight, ( the way it should be) and no wobbles at all, no matter what speed

he also told me why the problem was there in the first place, aka, my brother
you see, he never put on the spigot rings, put too much weights on all wheels, and tracked it wrong
he done it by bringing the 2 front wheels to 0 on each side and had 4 on each side on the back wheels, thats wrong,
by the book, my fronts should be -2 and plus 2, the back is 4 on each side

so lads and lassies, if your getting your tracking done, make sure that whoever is doing it, does so by the book, otherwise its a waist of time

 

[HDi fun]

That's very true. The ability and attitude of the operator is more important than the equipment used.

 

[prevtec]

That's very true. The ability and attitude of the operator is more important than the equipment used.

thanks for the article too mate