Tech Info Needed

[every penny]

HI Guys ,I,m looking for some technical info on four cylinder engines in the misubishi range , I,m told a good place to start is the Galant motor , What i,d like to know is what sizes does it come in ? i,d like something over 2L but still a 4 cylinder ,The info i,m looking for concerns the internals ,Does it have an iron crank or is it steel ? What metal are the con rods made of ? and are the pistons forged or cast ,If i,m barking up the wrong tree and need to be looking at some other engine to get what i need ,dont hesitate to tell me ,i wont be offended as i,m after a strong base for an engine that i,m planning to use for Drag racing . Cheers Guy,s You can live in a car but you cant race a house

 

[obi_waynne]

The VR4 turbo engine would be the best engine option for you. I'm guessing this is for drag racing.

 

[every penny]

You are right Wayne ,its for a small dragster {slinshot} and the target weight for it is 1000lbs or so ,if ican get 400 horse,s into it i should be able to run in the 8,s ,but i need a motor with steel internals as it may eventually run Methanol and end up blown . This ones just for fun ,i,ve done the big stuff and run 6,s @ over 200 ,now i want to get back to basics and make something run quick times when it should,nt ,
I know big engines inside out ,i ran a KB Hemi with 2500 horses ,but i,m taken with trying to make the small stuff run quick ,and right now i,m hampered by a lack of knowledge on small engines .Anything i can glean from you guy,s in the know will all help ,, John

 

[MasterAuron]

Sounds like we're the ones that should be gleaning from you chief

 

[every penny]

Its taken me a life time to glean what i know about v 8,s , and although i started with a Lancia motor i need to know which of the modern motors already have the basics of a good strong motor ,and for that i have to try and find out what materials they use when they put them together to start with .
Getting lots of power from v8,s is relitavely easy ,you need some basic idea of how much power you want ,and you open your wallet and pour out all your money ,when it runs out you,ve reached the limit of your power .

 

[MasterAuron]

If 400bhp is your goal and you have experience with the 2ltr 16v engine as found in the Integrale (831D5, 831E5) or the nearly identical one found in the Coupe (175A) then these engines will serve you well. The Coupe 16VT engines (and even whole cars) can be picked up for pennies these days. Granted though, they are not as modern as some and they have balance shafts to begin with but does that really matter?

There's always the tried and tested YB engines? Easier and cheaper to get goodies for no doubt. Known to be capable of massive power (for a 2ltr) Probably your best option tbh.

 

[every penny]

My old engine came out of the rusty Beta and we stuck a blower on it 2 yrs before lancia did, I looked at the YB but was told if i wanted more than 300 hp out of it i,d have to swap the crank rods and pistons for steel ,so i thought i,d look for something that might have steel internals to start with. that way i,d be half way there , it may be that i wont find what i want in a ( standard ) motor ,in that case i,ll probably go the Ford route as parts are fairly plentifull ,I,m not too worried about things like inlets and ECU,s as i wont be using them ,i,ll be running a modified constant flow injection with a single throttle body and a metering unit ( barrel valve ) to cope with the fuel flow needed to run Methanol

 

[obi_waynne]

So you taught Lancia a thing or two then!

What about using a Mitusbishi EVO engine as a base? These are pretty strong and should handle 400bhp fairly easily it should also be relatively straight forward to drop this into a Gallant body.

Why did you choose a Gallant as they are still quite big cars, I would have thought weight reduction and a smaller car would be the order of the day.

Do a search for MadRod, he has some experience with the Sierra Cosworth and has one of the fastest ones around. Old Git is also into 4 cylinder engines, hopefully they will spot this thread but if not send them a private message and direct them to this thread.

 

[every penny]

chose the Galant as a base for a good engine only as the motor will be in a slingshot dragster ,this type of car is a purpose built vehicle for competion only ,these are classic style dragsters with Big wheels at the back and pram wheels at the front . I was told the galant engine was the base for the EVO ?
Was i mis informed ?

 

[obi_waynne]

Ah, so you're not using the rest of the car, that makes sense!

IIRC the 4G63 Evo engines are generally in a higher state of tune. The Block, apart from the obvious mounting points is the same but some internal parts are uprated on the EVO's particularly the newer ones.

You can tell the difference between the engines as the EVO has 7 bolts on the flywheel (EVO1-3) the Galant has 6. Later EVO engines were much stronger internally than the older ones.

Have you researched the Crank Walk issues on the Older 2G blocks?

 

[every penny]

Did,nt know there were issues with crank walk ? is it an inherent problem or one that manifests itself in time ?
This is exactly why i came to you guys on this site , to find out exactly what makes these motors tick ,

 

[MasterAuron]

2G's are much more prone to it. Leave that well alone and go for a 6-bolt 1G. I don't know what parts you will be replacing but the 1G has stronger conrods and a larger throttle body, inlet runners and inlet menifold. Although this could be menial depending on how you intend to build the engine.

 

[obi_waynne]

Early EVO's were notorious for it. Higher mileage engines will generally have been rebuilt but you should get the newest engine you can really for a project.

A breakers yard should yield some good units.

Interestingly Simon Norris of Norris designs has turned out some very impressively powerful EVO's - it would certainly be worth visiting their site and seeing what can be done.

 

[every penny]

Thanks for the tip guys ,When you say 6 bolt ,are you talking about the number of bolts on the crank ? Any other faults i should be looking out for ? I dont plan to use any of the manifolds on the motor as i,ll make my own ,the water pump will be redundant also as its one advantage of running it on methanol , Ultimately i plan to run two turbo,s ( to try and overcome the lag ) So any ones better than others ? Cheers

 

[MasterAuron]

Flywheel bolts.

 

[old-git]

Ah, at last, a fellow drag race nut

I am very interested in that you hope to get a 1000lb/400bhp car into the eights.

I have run these figures through my drag simulation software and even with no wheel spin can only manage mid nines (albeit with a 6 speed box and non expanding tyres). How do you propose to achieve this feat as any info will help me with my project?

 

[old-git]

My old engine came out of the rusty Beta and we stuck a blower on it 2 yrs before lancia did, I looked at the YB but was told if i wanted more than 300 hp out of it i,d have to swap the crank rods and pistons for steel ,so i thought i,d look for something that might have steel internals to start with.

Err - rubbish. Crank and rods are already forged steel and pistons are Mahle forged alluminium . I don't know who told you they were only good for 300bhp but they are probably a Scoobie owner .

Standard bottom ends are capable of handling 500bhp with ease.

 

[every penny]

Hi Steve ,glad there,s another drag Racer on this site ,Your right about the figures i gave in an earlier post ,these were for general purposes and The car with the original engine gearbox combo weighs in at a little over 410 kg,s in my effort to keep things simple i rounded up the figure to 500 and called it 1000 lbs , If i can keep the original wieght of the car with a different motor /box combo ,then i should be able to run in the 8,s
Have you had much experience with the YB ,it was my original choice ,not leaste of all because there,s a good chance of getting some tuning gear for it [when money permits]
If as you say the internals are already pretty tough then perhaps i should look again at it
John

 

[pgarner]

for steves thread have a look here
http://www.torquecars.com/forums/f111/last-i-have-started-my-car-2454/
part 2 is at the end of it

 

[every penny]

Thanks pgarner Just read through it all ,Makes my earlier question superfluos to requirements , Ok OG forget i asked , Your going down a completely different route to me but the engine mods will be similar for both of us ,I,m planning too run Methanol through mine ,two reasons ,one i wont be running a radiator ,two i know the stuff and how it works ,
Later i,m hoping too run a turbo ---- or two to get over lag , Have you considered what launch revs your going to have to use ? And what rev range will you have to keep to in order to stay in your power band
John

 

[old-git]

Thanks pgarner Just read through it all ,Makes my earlier question superfluos to requirements , Ok OG forget i asked , Your going down a completely different route to me but the engine mods will be similar for both of us ,I,m planning too run Methanol through mine ,two reasons ,one i wont be running a radiator ,two i know the stuff and how it works ,
Later i,m hoping too run a turbo ---- or two to get over lag , Have you considered what launch revs your going to have to use ? And what rev range will you have to keep to in order to stay in your power band
John

Looking to run similar times, though

Re-running program with 900lbs weight, 400bhp and 350lb/ft, slicks & a 6 speed box gives me 9.2/145mph so I agree 8s are quite within reach with your setup.

Which box and diff will you be using?

My software is suggesting 3200rpm so I will start there. Max torque is around 5700rpm so changing up a few hundred above this should keep it strong. This will be sorted out once we have some power run data.

My only beef with the YB is its weight - around 120kg (the bare block alone is over 47kg!). There are some alloy blocks around but they are no stronger than a good RS500 block and very expensive.

I will be running pump fuel to start with but C16 and Q16 are options once the car is dialled in.

Do you have any idea when you will be out on the strip? I'm planning for early next season.

 

[every penny]

Right i,ll explain the original set-up , i want too for personal reasons ,keep as much of it as i can ,BUT not at the sacrifice of getting some decent times .
Lancia 1880 twin cam out of the Beta
Heads ported by myself
Custom flywheel turned on a lathe by me
Ferrari Boxer pressure plate ,with paddle style clutch disc (sintered bronze pads not asbestos mix )
Custom made can (bell housing )
Cluch release fork from a Rover
Custom modified Borg Warner 35 gearbox ( front pump removed and internal oilways re-worked to allow for a clutch to be used on the automatic box )
Custom built prop using a Greek coupling
Austin Westminster back axle 34" wide ,with mk Zephyr ends welded on and half shafts shortened
Marshall Cabin blower (off a Super Constellation )
2 x 1 3/4 S U carbs ,modified to run as constant flow fuel injection


The blower was mounted above the rocker box,s and a ( buch of bannana,s type manifold ) was fabricated to feed each inlet

The car ran on 13" slicks in an attempt to utilise the revs

It ran in the 11,s which in the early 80,s was not too shabby

Now i realise that some or even all the transmission may have too be changed and i,m currently trying too contact the guy who did the gearbox to ask his opinion on a replacement ,

As for getting the car back out ,again for personal reasons i,m trying too get it out for Extreme Wheels Day next year ,its the one held at Haynes Motor Museum

John