Space Frame Conversion

[Turboshaft]

Are there any shops that can replace your chassis with space frame, so that you can keep your original cars' look but do crazy things to it? And is it legal?

 

[MasterAuron]

Plenty. If you are prepared to spend mega bucks and not dreaming like most of the others, I'll continue. If not, it's time wasting really.

Bound to be legal with an SVA test.

 

[Turboshaft]

I am sorry for wasting your time, I am not going to do this any time soon, there is plenty of planning to do, but I would really appreciate if you could share more information about how it is done , how does it affect weight distribution and if it can be modified to allow a mid engine to be fit. I am also interested in how much does it weight compared to a regular chassis and a regular chassis with a rollcage.

How does engine size and weight affect the spaceframe configuration ?

 

[old-git]

I am sorry for wasting your time, I am not going to do this any time soon, there is plenty of planning to do, but I would really appreciate if you could share more information about how it is done , how does it affect weight distribution and if it can be modified to allow a mid engine to be fit. I am also interested in how much does it weight compared to a regular chassis and a regular chassis with a rollcage.

How does engine size and weight affect the spaceframe configuration ?

As MA said, if you are prepared to spend a bag of money, you can do anything.

If you decide to go the space frame route, you can do almost anything. It won't affect weight distribution, unless you want it to. Any engine can be accommodated as long as you are also prepared to modify firewalls, reposition steering column, stretch body, move seats etc

Weight depends on what car it is being made for, how much material is in it and the material it is made from. However, a space frame should reduce weight of car but at a cost. There are tubes everywhere and the car can become impractical for daily use.

One advantage of a properly designed space frame chassis is the rigidity that can be built into it.

What car are you considering and what is the planned use?

 

[thexav]

Think of the project as more of a building a replica of your car on a space frame chassis as this is more accurate.

 

[Turboshaft]

I'm considering an renault 11 for this , as it was the my first car and and the first one i raced in a hillclimbing competition. Unfortunately I had a nasty crash and now the chassis is slightly bent. Also , being front engined and front wheel driven, with no power assisted steering it was a nightmare to drive in a ~200 bhp setup.

If i decide to go on with this , i will use it mostly for hill climbing in a 2 liter turbocharged rwd configuration. (i want it to be in the same group as imprezas and evos). As xavier said I want it to be more of a replica of the old car, i care a lot about it having the old "skin" and reduce the weight as much as possible, i'm not even considering having a dashboard.


Depending on the budget , the engine will probably be a 2.0 f7r or a bored out vw kr (i can find a lot of parts for this engines around here)which i will turbocharge and squeeze the last bit of power out of them. Nevertheless I'm still counting on getting a placement after my second year so that i will afford a REAL engine (i'm open to suggestions about a light turbocharged 2 liter able to outperform those pesky subarus and evos)

 

[obi_waynne]

Don't make it hard for yourself, do your research and get either the transverse or inline setup - it must be right for your gearbox and rear axle or you will have problems. Will the engine be mounted in the engine bay or over the rear axle? I'm guessing that an inline engine would be better.

I don't think you can beat a 1.8T unit from VAG for tunability and solidity. The A4 was inline and the A3 has a transverse mount.

 

[Turboshaft]

by inline you mean that the engine is mounted "along" the car? i'm not familiar with all English engineering terms yet. If that's what you mean , then yes , i am going for an inline setup.

I would rather have the engine in the engine bay as one of my friends had his engine mounted in the back and he had a lot of trouble with understeering due to the front being too light.

The imprezas and evos here all have 300 to 500 hp,I would be happy with 300-350 hp and a really light car (about 900 kg would be ideal compared to the 1200-1400 the other cars in the 2.0 turbo group usually have)

Is the engine you are talking about the same as the one on the 1.8 T audi tt quattro ? I'm quite familiar with that engine.

 

[dpsubaru]

have pm'd you on this, my brothers currently do this to an Avenger with all his own work including full suspension geometry/build, engine/gearbox relocation etc...

 

[Turboshaft]

Wow, his project is truly amazing... setting up the suspension like that requires a serious bit of knowledge. Also nice CADs , I will give it a go in solidworks as well, mostly to see how everything fits together, how does the chassis handle different loads and which would be the best engine placement (I'm still convinced that front engine is the way to go but i want it to be as close to the front seats as possible)

 

[obi_waynne]

by inline you mean that the engine is mounted "along" the car? i'm not familiar with all English engineering terms yet. If that's what you mean , then yes , i am going for an inline setup.

Yup thats the one.

Is the engine you are talking about the same as the one on the 1.8 T audi tt quattro ? I'm quite familiar with that engine.

Yes it is, the block comes in quite a few configurations and codes. The Audi TT quattro version has around 225bhp as standard so this would be a great base to work from.

 

[Turboshaft]

I'm not that sure if it's that cost effective to get that 1.8t engine and bore it out. (keep it mind that i need a 2 liter turbo engine to get into the 2.5l-3l group-for group placement you multiply your engine displacement by 1.3 or 1.25 depending on competition- that is if your engine uses any kind of forced induction) For less than that i could get a sr20det and tweak it to 300 with stock internals. Also keep in mind the maintenance costs , the parts for the vw/renault engines i mentioned a couple of posts ago are a lot cheaper and won't leave me broke if i bust some internals during a race.

 

[jarrus]

Sounds interesting this, the vag 1.8t is a good engine but I would use something different,

something like a ford zetec 2.0 maybe, or even a cosworth engine would be ideal, the internals are strong enough to cope with up to 400 hp, and they were available in the serria as a front engine rwd layout, a note about upgrade, the dizzy and rotor arm will have to go and be replaced with a wasted spark igintion to make more power and make it more reliable, if these engines are well maintained you won't have to worry about buggering up the internals and there are plenty of mods for them and plenty of people who know how to tune them correctly so that would definitely be more first port of call because it has almost everything you need already

 

[dpsubaru]

Turboshaft - will check on this and let you know, on my bro's project the gearbox is inline and so the engine/bulkhead is back as far as it can go - he had to heavily modify the tunnel so that the whole thing could be moved back.

Optimal is mid engined, iirc, but somewhat complicated to set up if try to get the gearbox to fit to something that was originally planned as this.

 

[pgarner]

the 1.8 is a no go then if you need to get to 2.0 max bore only gives you a 1.9

 

[Turboshaft]

I have decided for a subaru ej20 , i can find a good one around here without paying a fortune for it. I will use a stock one and upgrade it as i get used to RWD (Did I mention I have never raced a RWD car before ? ) At the moment I am a bit worried I'll end up with a nose heavy car.

How much do you pay for a ej20 with gearbox and ecu loom in UK ?

 

[Jagz]

Here's a cheap way......Buy yourself an unfinished project kit car...pick one up for a few hundred quid then cut your bodywork off and fit that instead.

Done it with a MK2 Escort but for the life of me I cant remember what the space frame chasis was originally intended for.....?