Six Point Subframe Brace - Any Good?

[T9 man]

Well now the old girl is pushing out a bit more power these days and with an open track day at Snetterton in March all booked up! I was wondering if I would benefit any handling wise, by having a six point subframe brace fitted to the car?

I already have MapTun coilovers all round, stiffer wishbones and polybushes wherever I can get them on the car, and a piggyback front ARB in 22mm!

Can't help wondering if I could improve the handling a little more if I had the said item fitted? Some advice from you knowledgable chaps would be very much appreciated!

 

[Prince]

Braces are useful for both strenthening the chassis and minimizing chassis flex. I'm planning a little something similar for my BMW.

You should see a benefit (even if it just a small one) however different cars respond more to different setups. I.E. A fully built roll cage may be better.

 

[T9 man]

Braces are useful for both strenthening the chassis and minimizing chassis flex. I'm planning a little something similar for my BMW.

You should see a benefit (even if it just a small one) however different cars respond more to different setups. I.E. A fully built roll cage may be better.

That's why I thought of the subframe! I am a big chap and the laugh I had getting into a Ferrari 430 at Silverstone last year taught me that a big T9 and a rollcage do not mix

 

[Prince]

That's why I thought of the subframe! I am a big chap and the laugh I had getting into a Ferrari 430 at Silverstone last year taught me that a big T9 and a rollcage do not mix

Where do the 6 points join on a Saab?

 

[old-git]

You can't have it too stiff.

 

[T9 man]

Where do the 6 points join on a Saab?

Not all together sure, but I believe it starts just to the rear of the front wheels by the front doors and then goes back!

 

[T9 man]

You can't have it too stiff.

Where your concerned OG! not quite sure what to make of that last statement :bigsmile:

 

[Prince]

Are you sure it doesn't bolt on at the front (underneath)? If not then the middle would make sense. I'm not sure how much difference it would make there though.

 

[T9 man]

Are you sure it doesn't bolt on at the front (underneath)? If not then the middle would make sense. I'm not sure how much difference it would make there though.

Very possible! but the sales description is none to clear and it would be a case of "all would be revealed once you have bought it and read the instructions!" :sad2:

 

[Prince]

Very possible! but the sales description is none to clear and it would be a case of "all would be revealed once you have bought it and read the instructions!" :sad2:

Relating this to BMWs. The convertibles use an X brace that goes underneath at the front. Obviously to strengthen and reduce flex in the most important area.

Have you got any strut braces?

 

[T9 man]

Relating this to BMWs. The convertibles use an X brace that goes underneath at the front. Obviously to strengthen and reduce flex in the most important area.

Have you got any strut braces?

Yes, a custom made front brace made for me by Abbott Racing! Can be seen at the rear of the photo in brushed stainless steel.

 

[Prince]

Did you feel an improvement after fitting this brace?

 

[T9 man]

Did you feel an improvement after fitting this brace?

Actually yes! there was less torque steer which was a bonus! nothing worse than putting your foot down in a straightline then diving off to the left

 

[turbonutter69]

Actually yes! there was less torque steer which was a bonus! nothing worse than putting your foot down in a straightline then diving off to the left

My Focus was trying to kill me the other week when I had the rubbish biscuit wheel on one of the fronts because of a puncture.

 

[T9 man]

My Focus was trying to kill me the other week when I had the rubbish biscuit wheel on one of the fronts because of a puncture.

Actually now that you mention it TN, I have never seen my spare wheel :embarrest: I better make sure that I still have one

 

[turbonutter69]

Wish i'd never seen mine. I've used it loads.

 

[Prince]

Actually yes! there was less torque steer which was a bonus! nothing worse than putting your foot down in a straightline then diving off to the left

Then the 6 point brace should prove worth while. Just my little way of making a point!

 

[T9 man]

Then the 6 point brace should prove worth while. Just my little way of making a point!

Marvellous, cheers Prince will get the order in tomorrow

 

[Prince]

Marvellous, cheers Prince will get the order in tomorrow

Good stuff mate! Have you got a rear strut brace as well?

 

[T9 man]

Good stuff mate! Have you got a rear strut brace as well?

:embarrest: No! but that's about to be rectifed

 

[Prince]

:embarrest: No! but that's about to be rectifed

Ahhh... The one thing it's missing!

The rear strut brace should help with that high speed stability you want.

 

[MasterAuron]

You can't have it too stiff.

I didn't think a chassis could ever be too stiff? Or am I wrong?

The chassis itself I'm talking about as opposed to the suspension.

 

[turbonutter69]

I didn't think a chassis could ever be too stiff? Or am I wrong?

The chassis itself I'm talking about as opposed to the suspension.

IIRC toooo stiff will make it very twitchy if you get what I mean?

 

[Prince]

I didn't think a chassis could ever be too stiff? Or am I wrong?

The chassis itself I'm talking about as opposed to the suspension.

If it was too stiff would it not affect weight transfer?

 

[MasterAuron]

Nothing that can't be addressed with the suspension setup.

 

[Big Fat Fatty]

I didn't think a chassis could ever be too stiff? Or am I wrong?

The chassis itself I'm talking about as opposed to the suspension.

i think that's what OG meant, or at least that's how i read it

 

[MasterAuron]

i think that's what OG meant, or at least that's how i read it

Oh no. That could of course be exactly what he meant which would make me a complete plum pudding :embarrest:

 

[T9 man]

So, to buy a rear strut brace OR not to buy a rear strut brace? that is the question!

 

[old-git]

Oh no. That could of course be exactly what he meant which would make me a complete plum pudding :embarrest:

Hi Plum

Yes, Ideally, a chassis should have NO flex. Not possble in the real world but the stiffer the better.

 

[old-git]

If it was too stiff would it not affect weight transfer?

Yes, but in a good way. A perfectly rigid chassis would allow suspension tuning without the variable of chassis flex.

 

[MasterAuron]

Hi Plum

Yes, Ideally, a chassis should have NO flex. Not possble in the real world but the stiffer the better.

Well at least I wasn't wrong in my belief! That would be much, much worse

 

[T9 man]

Yes, but in a good way. A perfectly rigid chassis would allow suspension tuning without the variable of chassis flex.

So a rear strut brace will be the way to go then?

 

[MasterAuron]

I'd say so, if you have proper struts on the rear. The ones that just sort of bolt onto the wheel-arch/general real area like used in a lot of hatchbacks are pretty pointless.

 

[T9 man]

I'd say so, if you have proper struts on the rear. The ones that just sort of bolt onto the wheel-arch/general real area like used in a lot of hatchbacks are pretty pointless.

Cheers MA, will log out now and start my research

 

[jarrus]

Ha ha, nice

Reading this now, it looks like I got to do a bit of research, I can get roll cages for my car but it doesn't allow rear seats, or anything in the rear for that matter so is useless to me, so maybe a lower strut brace could be worth while, I know in saabs they have multilink rear suspension so they are set up well in any case.

But my car has a torsion bar rear axel, what kind of bracing on the rear would benefit me? as it doesn't have rear strut towers...

 

[jarrus]

Sorry for robbing the thread T

 

[Prince]

Can you not convert the torsion beams?

 

[jarrus]

To a turreted setup? Yes you can but it's time consuming and very hard to setup correctly.

 

[Prince]

To a turreted setup? Yes you can but it's time consuming and very hard to setup correctly.

Would it be worthwhile though in your opinion?

Brace wise have you got any installed?

 

[jarrus]

I'm not so sure, there are plenty of Track/Race 306's over on the GTI6 that have done this but I'm not sure if it's nessersary on a road car, I'd like a crack at doing it but getting suspension right is still a little out of my understanding.
They have used rear coilover suspension and the torsion bars are still in the tubes to keep the trailing arms in the beam, some have even talked about borrowing a rear subframe from a BMW Mini so they can have fully independant rear suspension.
The 306 Maxi rally car had torsion bars and that thing gave the big 4wd cars a run for the money on tarmac. Plus I'd be affraid of spoiling the personality of the car. (It's kind of why I choose it over a golf or a saxo.) I'd reckon though a rear set up from a 405 or 406 would be better maybe if it was to be done....

Still a lot to think about though as I do like smart engineering solutions.

I have no strut bracing what so ever at the moment.