Should new drivers have power restrictions?

[obi_waynne]

Should new drivers be limited to the power of their first car?

In a bike test you are limited to 125cc after you pass. Do you think a similar rule should apply to cars? Perhaps use the insurance groups and for the first 2 years drivers should stick with cars which are under a group 10 or something like that?

Do you think this will improve road safety?

 

[HDi fun]

Insurers already see to this with monster premiums for young drivers if they drive cars with any more than about 2.5bhp. It won't improve safety; it'll cost money to implement because the British Government will comission a study at a cost of about 80 million quid to conclude and tell us what we know already and then ignore its own advice.

 

[pgarner]

it depends on what bike test you sit. you are only limited to a 125 until you pass. with 1 i think still limits you to 125 but no L plates, the other is unlimited. this to me causes problems as well as someone who is 21 and can sit the big bike test can go from a 50cc engine to a 900cc.

the problem with letting insurance companies deal with it are

the ones who drive mummy and daddys car on their insurance just as a named driver
if insurance gets much higher for young drivers then they might just not bother with it. what is the current fine for driving w/o insurance last time i heard t was 3 points and £60 fine. well the 3 points aint going to bother you if you dont bother insurance and the £60, well its cheaper than the £2k they might have been paying.

what i think would be an idea was that your silly low insurance groups 1 and 2 should be made cheaper for young drivers say around £600 a year as long as they are not modified in ANY way. and price them out of the higher insurance cars.

this has shown up on many forums all over the place. i remember the msn one saying that there is no point in just sticking them to 1.0ltr things as they will just modify the engine to get more power without the insurance company knowing. at least there was someone with sense on there and pointed out that small engines are a waste of time youd have to spend all this money for 10 bhp increase it would be cheaper just to get the bigger car and insure it.

 

[HDi fun]

It's quite easy to drive a 1 litre car dangerously. You don't need 250bhp to do that

 

[obi_waynne]

You've touched on my reservations on this. I agree that the prohibitive cost of insurance helps to do this already. It's just there are some out there with lots of money and very little sense. Having researched further most insurers actually refuse cover to <1year licence holders on high grouped cars nowadays.

 

[Prince]

I agree that new drivers should be restricted. This would make it safer for both them and us. It would also bring insurance costs down for the newbies.

The main problem is the rich folk that buy a Skyline as their first car and put us in danger.

 

[Izo Azlion]

I agree that new drivers should be restricted. This would make it safer for both them and us. It would also bring insurance costs down for the newbies.

The main problem is the rish folk that buy a Skyline as their first car and put us in danger.

I'm not arsed about them putting me in danger, so much as skyrocketing my insurance premiums.

Not sure whether it should be restricted. I could be as much of a dick in the 70bhp Civic as I can in the 180bhp Golf, if I really wanted too.

*shrug* jUst my opininon

 

[Prince]

You're entitled to your opinion mate...I totally agree with what you said. But it's a fact that a new driver can not handle as much power as an experienced driver, that was part of my point....and yeah I want my insurance to lower as well! Don't we all?!

 

[old-git]

One way to get much cheaper insurance is to survive to my age!

Adrian Flux quoted me for my proposed 520bhp Elan. No NCB, Full Comp, £25,000 value - £583 - not bad. No one else would touch it. My Range Rover (L reg) costs £150 FC, same as the Robin Hood (both with AF as well). One of the very few advantages of getting older

My kids did the Pass Plus and got one year's NCD straight away. Worth thinking about. Essex County Council will even pay half of the fee!

 

[HDi fun]

I'm in that comfortable bracket ie. over 35 and below 65 where insurance is good value if you have a good record.

 

[Shao]

good isnt it!

But if the insurance is too expensive for the younger drivers then some will just not bother getting any and still drive.......

 

[Prince]

Don't forget about the discount Adrian Flux offers car club members!

 

[obi_waynne]

But if the insurance is too expensive for the younger drivers then some will just not bother getting any and still drive.......

Sadly some do this. People don't realise what the consequences are.

You won't be able to get tax and the car will be flagged up and pulled at the first opportunity. The penalties are pretty steep and the conviction "using a car uninsured against third party risks" will pretty much stop you from getting insurance for a few years as many insurers take a very dim view.

The owner of the car has to decide weather you took the car without permission making it a taking without consent conviction, or he can say he gave permission and accept an "aiding abetting counselling or procuring conviction" for driving without insurance also.:blink:

Plus if you have an accident you are potentially going to get sued for the damage and injuries cause as insurers recover their outlay.

 

[jizy]

Being a young driver myself I dont believe putting power restrictions on us would help. As already said you can drive a 1.1l like a plank and kill people. Unless your dad has business fleet insurence the chance of getting much past a 1.4 are slim.

I think a better option would be to educate younger drivers about the consequences of crashing and have better lessons. I had ten hour lessons and all I did was drive around my local town, taught me nothing really.

If you young and want to own a Scooby, BMW, Skyline etc driving carefully and claim free for a few years is the only way.

 

[pgarner]

yeah changes to the driving exam would be better
have it include motorway, night and if possible rain/snow driving

i was ucky my test center was 1/2 hour away so had driving experience on the open road as well as through the town. this also included duel carriageway driving so did allow me to reach 70mph without the need for the motorway. also did it over winter so had plenty of lessons in the dark, rain, ice, snow

 

[HDi fun]

I don't think the test really has much to add, regardless of how it's altered. It's attitude that really counts, and a willingness and intent to go on learning over the miles and years.

 

[obi_waynne]

Advanced driving courses are a very good idea - even for the older ones among us. See the new skid thread for a hopefully interesting discussion.

 

[Shao]

I don't think the test really has much to add, regardless of how it's altered. It's attitude that really counts, and a willingness and intent to go on learning over the miles and years.

yep attitude is a big issue, and people that just do stupid/arrogant things expecting others (us) to get out of the way.

 

[Sid447]

To the original question,

Yes!
It teaches people anticipation, how to work the gears better, gets you to understand momentum and makes you think more before pulling out of side roads to name just a few.

 

[7ONY]

It's quite easy to drive a 1 litre car dangerously. You don't need 250bhp to do that

Agreed, a new driver can cause as much trouble in a 1,000 cc mini as a 300 bhp evo. I personally think new drivers should be the same as a provisionl driver and must be supervised by a experienced driver for at least the first 6 months

 

[HDi fun]

Power restrictions won't achieve anything. After all, insurers apply their own limit mechanism with high premiums for new drivers.

That's why I disagree with Sid447 and his point that it makes 'em think. Perhaps they should all be forced to drive cars with questionable brakes, poor tyres, poor adhesion and have the airbags replaced with spikes?

I think not!

 

[7ONY]

Airbags replaced with spikes !!!
LOL I like that idea

 

[HDi fun]

Airbags replaced with spikes !!!
LOL I like that idea

I'm not advocating any of this.

The only thing that troubles me is that it's often argued, by drivers, new and old, that having acceleration on tap (it's spare in gear torque that makes this possible) can get you out of trouble. Yes it might do so, maybe.

But it's quite likely to lead you into trouble more quickly and increase the amount of damage, should an accident occur. It's possible to accelerate into trouble, rather than away from it.

 

[CitizenErazed]

people often seem to make the same mistake with this kind of thing, bringing in age groups, it's not an age thing though. How about just having a bunch of different tests. You pass your test to say you know how to rive on the roads etc.. but are limited to 1.2 L with this, then have another test for 1.5s to make sure you can handle them, then 2.0 L to make sure you can handle them, etc.. etc..

 

[HDi fun]

Age isn't the problem. Most young drivers have superb reactions in response to spurious stimuli. That's fine as long as your aware of the situation to which you're supposed to react.

Many older drivers think they're superior in all aspects of driving. They're often not as good as they'd like to think that they are.

It's not all about reaction times either. That's the thing bandied about by yound drivers.

Restricting power, torque or acceleration is pointless.

CAn you imagine the situation when a test passer is allowed to progress from a 80bhp car to a 150bhp one?

I know how I'd have dealt with it 22 years ago

 

[Sid447]

Agreed, a new driver can cause as much trouble in a 1,000 cc mini as a 300 bhp evo.

That's the same logic as putting new pilots into a supersonic jet and by-passing the slower, less responsive, more predictable and forgiving training aircraft.
And using part of the reason as being too many accidents because the pilots are transitioning from a 200mph basic trainer into a 600mph advanced trainer and it's too mind-bending. :amazed:

We learn to walk before we can run.

Age is most of the problem. Not really much to do with reaction time. It's experience.
The 18-25 age group cause more than 35% of all road fatalities.
Insurance companies ask for experience in as much as how long have you been driving and how long have you had a licence for. Because the first important requirement is to learn how and where to position your car on the road and then learn how to survive getting from 'a' to 'b' safely.
The 40-55 age group have the lowest insurance premiums, there's a sound reason for that!
There is no substitute for experience. How often have you heard the saying if only you could put an old head on young shoulders.

It's only modern society in developed countries that spurn the old traditional way of 'turning to the village elder for help and advice.'

 

[turbonutter69]

Agreed, a new driver can cause as much trouble in a 1,000 cc mini as a 300 bhp evo. I personally think new drivers should be the same as a provisionl driver and must be supervised by a experienced driver for at least the first 6 months

How can that be. A new inexperienced driver in a 300 BHP evo is gonna cause damage. Where as in a 1 litre it's not gonna be that bad.
If anyone can remember me saying that my mate had crashed his car into a wall at night on the road on his own. IMO it's because he Thinks he can drive fast but in all honesty He CAN'T.
Anyhow this is what happens when you think your a good driver.
This was an 1.8 Sri. Can anyone recognise what model of car it is.

He was very very lucky to get out of this without a scratch. :amazed:

 

[HDi fun]

What about this, then? I'm thinking of RoryP's dilemma at moment.

What if he bought a second user 335d and then had it remapped so that the torque output was similar to a 320d? If the insurer would discount his insurance to a similar level that it would cost to insure a 320d or 318d he could then get a couple of years more experience, thus bringing the premiums down. Now he could go and have it restored to factory time without getting robbed for insurance. Or indeed, get it mapped to give more than standard torque and power (although the stock 335d I drove recently wasn't exactly struggling - nor should it be with 286bhp).

BMW would have done well to offer it with a manual option at no cost to suit drivers who prefer manual boxes. Currently it's auto only, as is the 535d.

I think, though were I to have a 335d, I'd still get it remapped as the lure of 517lbft and 345bhp would be too much to resist, pointless and needless as it is.

Such a scheme would have to be well regulated.

 

[turbonutter69]

I'd have the petrol version....

 

[HDi fun]

I'd have the petrol version....

I know you would.

But sadly you'd find it spineless in comparison to the d variants. BMW has struggled for years to maintain a market for its petrol models because of the sheer performance and authority of the diesel ones available for the same off the shelf price.

I'd take a 535d over a 535i M Sport without hesitation.

These things aren't just sold for fuel economy reasons. They're bought for the sheer deep chested muscle on offer to the enthusiastic driver.

The petrol market in this sector is usually confined to older drivers who do not appreciate the fact that diesel gives a far swifter drive.

 

[turbonutter69]

I'd take a 328 petrol because those engines can take some good power even on standard internals. I know of one with a Turbo conversion that eats M3's for breakfast.

 

[Sid447]

Turbo Diesels,

are definately getting better and better. Thanks to modern technology etc.

But aren't we off-topic here in this thread?

If only for other ppl who search for a particular subject and find even more talk about TD's which must fill a good 30% of the threads in this Forum. :amuse:

 

[skinsley]

i think yes! as yo know the age restrictions on motorbikes why not for cars,a work frend of mine says the police would look at the kid in the new bmw and say he is to young to be driving that gets pulled up and yes its his car he is 18! so if the law said he could only drive a 1.4 till the age of 21 i think they learn lots in this time and are ready for a real car