Public perception of off-road vehicles.

[RobBentley]

Hi All.

What are your thoughts on this? I own two cars a Land Rover and a Passat W8. I often hear people talk about '4x4's (by which they mean off-roaders, as my Passat is a 4motion model) being unnecessary, gas guzzling and take up a lot of room in towns.

Personally I think it’s a load of drivel....

Unnecessary – so could be argued is a 3.2 V6 in a golf a 2.5 V6 in a Vectra or on the grand scale - a Ferrari F430 or Audi RS6 V10, but you don’t see many people bashing them.

Gas guzzling – my Passat uses more fuel than my Land Rover Diesel – enough said.

Big – People perceive “height” as big. There is a reason we build 20 story apartment blocks in cities – upwards is free space. Most large saloons or estates are longer than your average off roader.

.. Yet if green-tree-huggers-united go for a bash the motorist day, they'll come for the off-road drivers first.




Thoughts?

 

[HDi fun]

It's just representative of how thick the average punter really is.

 

[herb]

personally if people can afford to run them then its up to them if they buy 1 they shouldnt be dictated to by anyone tree huggers/government

and my only hate of 4x4s are the drivers eg the 1s who cant judge the size of there vehicles and the 1s who cause they have such a big and dominant vehicle try to bully there way on the roads

 

[turbonutter69]

personally if people can afford to run them then its up to them if they buy 1 they shouldnt be dictated to by anyone tree huggers/government

and my only hate of 4x4s are the drivers eg the 1s who cant judge the size of there vehicles and the 1s who cause they have such a big and dominant vehicle try to bully there way on the roads

Yeah that bit is ridiculous. I mean if you drive a big car or 4x4 then you should know the limits of size etc. But there is so many that won't go through a gap because they think they won't fit. Yet the lorry or bus before them managed the gap easily.

 

[herb]

Yeah that bit is ridiculous. I mean if you drive a big car or 4x4 then you should know the limits of size etc. But there is so many that won't go through a gap because they think they won't fit. Yet the lorry or bus before them managed the gap easily.

this is a perfect example and i have witnessed this a few times and sorry to sound sexist here but it has mainly been women

 

[HDi fun]

If you want to buy and run one then do so with my blessing. Whether you absolutely need it for agricultural reasons, simply need to tow a horse box across muddy fields then it's not for me or anyone else to tell you what to drive.

I have little interest in large offroad 4x4 vehicles for road use, I prefer normal cars, although the 4x4 system such as Rob's W8 Passat is clearly still a desireable feature.

Strangely I be he get no attention at all from the tree huggers in his 4.0 litre 4x4 Passat W8 but I bet he gets loads of grief from them when driving his 2.0 TD4 Freelander which actually operates in 2wd mode on the highway. It's almost certainly lighter than the W8, and burns diesel in an engine of half the size.

So much for bigoted, spineless, mindless braindead stupidity which most tree huggers exhibit. It's not as if their mission is unheeded, they just project their opinions upon the wrong targets.

 

[lutonmatt]

do hate when there is a big cap and people in the smallest of cars dont go throught yet my trans am is wider then most thing sticks out on the road when i am parked and looks like i am 2ft away for them kerb yet i am agaist it

yet i fly through most gaps if i have the room or not only one way to see if you have the room

and the freelander is conestent 4wd does not have a 2wd on it but i might be wrong if its a new shape think they might have a 2wd system and the 4wd bit is computer controled

 

[davy]

most ppl havent a clue wat ther talkin about wen it comes to cars and that,its just because ppl tink that jeeps ar for d fields not d roads

 

[RobBentley]

and the freelander is conestent 4wd does not have a 2wd on it but i might be wrong if its a new shape think they might have a 2wd system and the 4wd bit is computer controled

The original and facelift FreeLanders (i have a 2004 sport) use a very complicated LandRover VC unit that locks up when traction to the front is lost. Under normal road conditions they're 85%+ front wheel drive, although not completely. It is so complex even Land Rover engineers can't tell you the exact distribution on tarmac, it can even vary based on road surface and tyres.

Strangely I be he get no attention at all from the tree huggers in his 4.0 litre 4x4 Passat W8 but I bet he gets loads of grief from them when driving his 2.0 TD4 Freelander which actually operates in 2wd mode on the highway. It's almost certainly lighter than the W8, and burns diesel in an engine of half the size.

I get attention in the W8 for all the RIGHT reasons - wow that sounds nice, what engine is that? I didn't know a 'W' engine made it into the Passat (etc etc). Despite the fact is kicks 320g/km, averages 19-21mpg combined cycle and is as long as a Volvo V70 estate.

The FreeLander kicks from factory 240g/km and produces 32mpg. It's doing more like 35mpg since a remap! You get comments like, why do you need that?, when did you last go off-road? etc etc

Fact is - its great fun sitting high up, the miles go from underneath you easier on a long trip due to the greater view of the road ahead, when it snows - I can still get down the country lanes and if the lanes flood - it's pretty good at wading.

The Passat on the other hand, sounds fantastic and will do 185MPH - somewhat less usefull, but fun as hell - and strangly attracts less negative 'press' so to speak.

 

[RobBentley]

i might be wrong if its a new shape think they might have a 2wd system and the 4wd bit is computer controled

My father has a new shape FreeLander II TD4. The mechanics have gone and have been replaced with the very latest Haldex offering. It's 100% front wheel drive, but within a 5th of a wheel turn traction can be delivered to the rear.

It's a computer controlled system and when slip is detected it engages a electronically regulated haldex clutch to send power to the rear wheels.

The problem with this - having driven one - is there is massive delay if you suddenly 'stamp' on the throttle to pull out. The system knows the new 2.2 TD4 engine would just spin the front wheels (it's pushing 400+Nm of torque for god sake!) so it delays the signal from the throttle pedal until the haldex clutch has been engaged - then, after what feels like all of eternaty it, GOES LIKE STINK.

 

[RobBentley]

.. and for anybody interested in my rant about 4wd systems...

The system in the Passat is a Torsen based system using a proper mechanical Torsen differential. This system is purely mechanical with no computers at all. Power is regulated by planetry gears and such like that engage/disengage drop in and out etc based on the resistance balance on the two output shafts (basically front and rear grip levels).

On the Audi RS4 and other such Quattro cars the gears are setup with a 40/60 front-rear balance - on the Passat it is setup with a perfect 50/50 balance. I believe power can go as far as 23/77 split either way and given how tail happy it can become without ESP I believe this 100%.

This system isn't to be confused with Haldex (computer controlled) clutch system used in the Golf R32, Audi TT and Audi S3 (etc) which is simmilar, but a slower/older version of that used on the FreeLander II.

 

[obi_waynne]

I will admit to feeling threatened by many 4x4 drivers. There seems to be an unwritten law of size where the big vehicle is given priority.

I have on a number of occasions had someone in a Range Rover steaming up behind me on the motorway, practically barging me out of the way, despite the fact that I am legitimately overtaking someone in the outside lane at 69.5 mph.

That said though for some people they are essential workhorses and you can't judge a driver by their car. They are quite nice to drive and you get a good view of the road ahead. Its just a shame that they are frequently driven by people who are not brilliant drivers and who couldn't park for toffee! This is also true of many other types of car though and it would be unfair to blame all 4x4 of this.

I just wonder if the size gives the owner a false sense of invunerability on the roads?

 

[RobBentley]

I will admit to feeling threatened by many 4x4 drivers. There seems to be an unwritten law of size where the big vehicle is given priority.

You find this with trucks too, and "white van men" are the worst in my opinion - but again, you can't label them all.

What I'm getting at is - for some they are an essential tool, for most they are a toy. The same doens't go for fast noisy cars.

I've no problem with either, as demonstrated by my choice of vehicles - I just wanted to spark up a debate on this fine forum!

 

[RobBentley]

I have on a number of occasions had someone in a Range Rover steaming up behind me on the motorway, practically barging me out of the way, despite the fact that I am legitimately overtaking someone in the outside lane at 69.5 mph.

If a Range Rover comes tanking up behind you, your going too slowely






j/k


Actually - you've hit one of my pet hates on the head here. People overtaking at 2mph more than the person they're going past. I mean - WTH? Does it really matter that much to be doing 70mph instead of 68mph?

I can understand why trucks do it - they're instructed to as they're run 24/7/365 and 2 miles an hour over a whole year can add upto 17520 miles (minus brakes, load and unloading etc) - and the hauilers keep a close eye on the taco, check your doing full pace all the time.

 

[obi_waynne]

If a Range Rover comes tanking up behind you, your going too slowely

I was waiting for that. Some how he had managed to crank it up to about 95mph!

That's a good idea for another thread. Watch this space.

 

[Wcnwzrd]

i just tell em that i prefer to be able to go anywhere i feel like and not be limited to maintained roads. If they don't like em they don't have to drive em. Some of the best hunting/fishing/camping spots are up the old logging roads back home and if you don't have 4x4 with a bit of lift your confined to the camping grounds with some idiot blasting thier music or not controlling thier kids/pets/ect.

 

[pgarner]

I hate them big ugly thristy polluting things. now im going out to race my RS6

 

[pgarner]

dont see the point of them in the cities where you might have to handle a pothole or two but out in the country as a work horse yes even thought about getting one a while ago

 

[Wcnwzrd]

for the most part you wont need one in the city but you never know when a coworker needs help picking up that new big screen they just bought. i normally get invites to game parties or BBQ's when i lend the space my burb or truck have. no to mention i don't have to fight for space between the kids and the groceries (normally buy at least a months worth at a time)

 

[RobBentley]

dont see the point of them in the cities where you might have to handle a pothole or two but out in the country as a work horse yes even thought about getting one a while ago

This is what I mean - people get hung up on their capabilities. For the same reason, what good is a 155MPH sports car in a city?

Based on this thinking - we'd all be driving a TATA Nano or whatever.

 

[turbonutter69]

Each to their own is all I have to say.

 

[pgarner]

This is what I mean - people get hung up on their capabilities. For the same reason, what good is a 155MPH sports car in a city?

Based on this thinking - we'd all be driving a TATA Nano or whatever.

1st post was to get a reaction.

yes totally agree every time ive been in centre of london i see AM, Ferrari, lambo, bentleys etc but there only getting up to 15 maybe 20mph and proberly never see the country side or the better side of 4k rpm in anything other than 1st gear
then you go out on the M/ways and see the prius on the wrong side of 90mph

 

[Wcnwzrd]

1st post was to get a reaction.

yes totally agree every time ive been in centre of london i see AM, Ferrari, lambo, bentleys etc but there only getting up to 15 maybe 20mph and proberly never see the country side or the better side of 4k rpm in anything other than 1st gear
then you go out on the M/ways and see the prius on the wrong side of 90mph

lol gotta love the hybrids loosing thier MPG advantage