Performace Mods

right where to go? Can you tell me where and why?

Dastek - advantages

Rolling road
2 minutes away from house
Normaly £650 doing it for £400

Disadvatages

Less power - 150 bhp and 286 lb/ft torque
£40 more

Celtic - advantages

More power - 165 bhp and 300 lb/ft torque
Only £360

Disadvatages

1-1.5 hour drive
No rolling road
Are the power fiqures just pub talk?

Where to go??

Also could I get it mapped at Celtic then further mapped by dastek to squeeze more power from it?
 
roryp15 said:
right where to go? Can you tell me where and why?

Dastek - advantages

Rolling road
2 minutes away from house
Normaly £650 doing it for £400

Disadvatages

Less power - 150 bhp and 286 lb/ft torque
£40 more

Celtic - advantages

More power - 165 bhp and 300 lb/ft torque
Only £360

Disadvatages

1-1.5 hour drive
No rolling road
Are the power fiqures just pub talk?

Where to go??

Also could I get it mapped at Celtic then further mapped by dastek to squeeze more power from it?
Click to expand...

me personally i would go to dastek its closer and if they are setting the map on the rr it will be a custom map so they will get the best usable power available from your car!!!

and the power quotes posted by celtic will be real but im guessing these figures are the best results they have ever gotten and there is no gaurantee they will get these results for you from a generic map

and yes you could get it mapped by celtic then do a few mods to your car then get the custom map for best results from dastek

mate believe me when i say which ever map you go for it will transform your car and you will be pleased im saying this cause of my car and im sure hdi will say the same
 
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Yeah I no I will get alot it's just Celtic have great reviews. I'm just wanting as much power as possible see if a remap will take me to 150 bhp say i'd won't at least! Another 20 bhp and over 300 lb/ft torque. I just have these fiqures In my head and wouldn't mind beating a few of the bigger ( powerful cars)
 
Remapping isn't all about bhp initially. Good tuners will spend time flattening torque curves firstly. This will smooth out the power delivery. once this is done they can then start dialling in extra boost pressure and offering more fuel to take advantage of the available oxygen with which the fuel can be burnt.

You'll get strong performance will 300lbft, stronger than you'd ever imagine possible, regardless of a fairly modest 160+bhp.

Torque is what makes cars accelerate
 
thanks for all the replys guys. I think i'm going to go for a panel filter, exhast, de-cat pipe then a remap from Celtic. Does anyone know what they 150 has had done to get the 260 bhp or what ever it's on.
 
One point you did make was to use Celtic and then Dastek. You can't piggyback ECU maps.

Whichever you choose you'll be gobsmacked by the results.

I was, and I'm no stranger to fast cars, but got more than I expected would be possible simply from some code changes
 
roryp15Re: Performace Mods
thanks for all the replys guys. I think i'm going to go for a panel filter, exhast, de-cat pipe then a remap from Celtic. Does anyone know what they 150 has had done to get the 260 bhp or what ever it's on.
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said before, will try and find the full spec list, it started life as a 100bhp none PD engine, the 130 engine was swapped in then the real work started

pgarner said:
the highest ive heard was 260 but that had
custom hybrid turbo
larger injectors
full exhaust no cat or DPF.
cold air intake
constant propane injection on top of the diesel
nitrous for an extra blast.
water meth injection - lowered the intake temps and allowed higher boost
and a load of other engine work.
Click to expand...
 
My tuned up Skoda Fabia pushes a decent 259.4 bhp on a dyno dynamics RR. Mods include LPG, NOS, BIG turbo, no cat, cam, straight through exhaust. Smoke is only due to low down overfuelling which cleans up later. 100bhp to 260bhp. Not bad.
Click to expand...

Also this car does 6.84secs to a ton with 2nd gear launch, which is absolutely amazing and still returns around 50mpg. The torque of the car is mind blowing 570NM at 3000RPM
Click to expand...

570mn is around 420 ftlb

had a lot more done to it this was taken from another post
 
Guys I really don't know where to get it mapped. I'm leaning towards dastek as it's on the RR and it's 2
Minutes away from my work and house. The thing is they only claim 150 bhp and 286 lb/ft torque. Can I go into dastek and ask if they could increase the boost and bhp anymore or will they not be able to.

With Celtic the 165 bhp and 300 lb/ft torque is definarly what I'm after but then I might put it on a RR and it turns out I only get the same gains as dastek but have to travel and wait for it.

What do I do haha!
 
right 1st up phone them and ask if thats the generic map, if so tell them your plans and ask what they think it will get with a stage 2 or custom map ( whatever they want to call it ) then do the same with celtic
 
The reason I'm waitin is cause I'm waiting on the credit card coming through, which should be here in about a week. what's the differnce between a generic map and a custom?
 
generic is just loaded up, the custom map is the generic but altered to suit the individual car.

why are you putting it on a CC save the money up 1st no point in getting into debt not with the interst charges
 
a generic map (stage 1 map) is a map that the tuning company has made specially for a certain engine/turbo and they will flash it on to your ecu and every other engine/turbo the same as yours

a custom map (stage 2 map) is set up on the rolling road and will achieve the best from your engine/turbo/mods so in reality this will be the best map for you
but saying this the custom map is better if you have done a few light mods prior to mapping (air filter, exhaust, tip, fmic)

hope this helps
 
what's a fmic and a tip?

Well ill go into dastek then and find out so the 150 bhp he quoted me might just be a stage 1 map, they might be able to get it up to 160+ and 300 lb/ft of torque
 
I had spoke to the guy in dastek about a bigger intercooler, be sayed I would get better gains from using ( not sure what it's called ) but it acts as a 2nd intercooler as you don't get the real benifet from a bigger one until your doing 95mph +. That was £600 +vat though.

Never heard of the tip, is it worth it? Any extra power? How much is it?
 
I think you'd have to ask the Dastek chap. He should have an idea of the additional cooling and what it would mean to your car. That, after all, is what you're paying for, ie. accurate advice.

The problem you might have is lazy throttle if you have too much airspace in the intake tract.
 
yeah I'll go in in about a week or so once I'm ready. I thought the panel filter helps with throttle response as in when you put the foot down you get immediate power rather than waiting untill the revs are higher.
 
Nope, sorry, disagree. The panel filters benefits, if there are indeed any, will be felt at the top end of the range when the engine is breathing deeply.

In the midrange you need to get the car onto positive boost (rather than lag) asap. The only way to do this with a diesel is to increase the fuelling cautiously so that the turbo is providing boost sooner. This can often result in a bit of soot from the exhaust on the transition from off boost to on boost.

It's largely unavoidable.

Please get in touch with your tuner of choice and discuss your plans. Any worth their salt will give you good advice and a sound strategy for a tuning project.
 
Surley a panel filter must have some sort of benefit cause people would spend £50 quid or what ever just to say ive got a panel fiter. Yea im not expecting huge power gains or anything just surly there must be a benefit?

So ill go into dastek and ive to ask about their custom remap? and see how much power they can push out.

Then ive to tell him my goals of getting more than 300 lb/ft torque and at least 170 bhp or as close as i can to 200. So he might not even reccomend an exhaust or de cat for it then?

What you think is the most they could push out of my car in just a remap?
 
roryp15 said:
Surley a panel filter must have some sort of benefit cause people would spend £50 quid or what ever just to say ive got a panel fiter. Yea im not expecting huge power gains or anything just surly there must be a benefit?

So ill go into dastek and ive to ask about their custom remap? and see how much power they can push out.

Then ive to tell him my goals of getting more than 300 lb/ft torque and at least 170 bhp or as close as i can to 200. So he might not even reccomend an exhaust or de cat for it then?

What you think is the most they could push out of my car in just a remap?
Click to expand...

The reason people use drop in performance panel filters is simply to reduce the cost of constantly replacing a paper element type. You can hoover them clean if you want to do so.

If you really want to increase the breathing of your car then a cold air induction kit might well help. If your diesel is equipped with the DPF regenerative exhaust soot trap then you cannot use a cold air induction kit.

I don't think you'll gain much at all from a cotton gauze air filter element.

You seem to be asking the same questions over and over again.

My advice is this:- get it serviced properly - drive it for a couple of days - now go and make an appointment with the tuner of your choice. Dastek has very good reports, as does Celtic Tuning.

Any tuner will need to know what your goals are. The tuning parameters are numerous. You are not going to achieve 200bhp from that engine. Accept it the way it is. You will quite likely get 160-170 bhp. That is not the whole story. What you WILL get is a massive increase in midrange acceleration in 2nd/3rd/4th/5th, and 6th if it has one.

Make an appointment, get the car serviced before you turn up and then sit back and be amazed by how much performance can be realised from a simple change in control parameters. That's all a remap is!

Nearly all diesels are undertuned at the factory simply to make a space in the market for similar sized petrol engines.

Now, please stop prevaricating and go and get the bloody thing remapped. YOU WILL LIKE THE RESULT
 
I was just wanting to make sure it was definatly a remap I need and if there was anything else I could do. I'll go down to dastek next week and have a chat with the guy and see what they can give me.

I'll post back in about 2-3 weeks at the most let you know what the RR says.

Thanks for all the help guys!
 
OP, be careful, if your clutch is the same as the one on my mk 4 Bora 1.9TDI 130, then it's only rated to 300lbft, and if you go over you'll need to fit an uprated one.
 
That can be an issue. I had my clutched replaced at 117,000 miles and the car had been remapped since 55,000. Torque is over 320lbft but I've had no slip problems. I suspect if you really savaged it then it would wear pretty quickly
 
right guys, had the car booked into dastek yesterday. He sayed i would be getting 161 bhp and just short of 300 lb/ft torque and a before and after dyno run for £400.

Went down twice to see how it was getting on the first time he sayed it was just about to go on the dyno and would be able 15/20 minutes.

I went back an hour later and he sayed it would be 15/20 - i waited.

He came out and told me bad news, there was no point in doing the map as my MAF sensor is nakered and a flexi bit on my exhaust is blowen. My car is putting out 75 bhp and 170 lb/ft torque. He still charged me for a dyno run and the test to tell me what was wrong. I never asked for a dyno run, i asked for a remap which comes with a 2 dynos runs free. I got chanrged £97

Also it took them 6 hours to do a 20 minute job and tell me it wasnt worth it to do the remap.

Hmmmmmm i might just go to celtic in Glasgow. They claim 165 bhp and 300 lb/ft toruqe. They are about £40 cheaper for the remap but dont offer a before and after dyno run.

Also i will have to get my maf replaced and the flexi bit on my exhaust fixed

grrrrrrrr

what do i do?
 
You won't need the dyno run to prove anything. You'll notice the extra torque as soon as you drive the thing away.

It's quite reasonable to be charged for the dyno runs if you've not been charged anything else. But I do think they should perhaps have checked the car thoroughly before the dyno anyway
 
the problem youve got is any dcent tuner will do a diagnostic test before and after the works done to check for any issues. how it took them so long to spot the MAFs gone is a wonder however. and £97 isnt to bad for a dyno and full diagnostic. youve said it took 6 hours, next time look at taking it to VW 6 hours at around £70 an hour then £80 for the diagnosic. big differnce. he could have just loaded the map on and left you with a car that was still underpowered and more likely to be damaged

common change is to replace the VW MAF with a Merc one ( added benifit is that its about £20 cheaper ) and is more robust
part is a Pierburg rather than Bosch
part number A 611 094 00 48
costs about £47
some require a little work to it, google it and you should find the info you need.

the flexi pipe on the exhaust. if its the same as the petrol models its at the end of the cat. you could change this for a sports cat for around £200 -250. or is the cat itself is alright just replace the flexi. most exhaust garages will be able to cut off the old one and weld another on in its place.
 
MAFs are reasonably easy to change.

After that it might be worth bobbing on ukmkivs and seeing if anyone's got a full copy of vagcom near you that you can get all your fault codes from and see if anything else is up.
 
Spoke to a mate of a mate who works in essport ( car accesories ) He sayed go to Celtic Tuning. They are the most reccomended company in britain and do things with injector timing etc and will take it up to what they say.

Going to go to Celtic :D
 
I've been a long time Celtic fan. They do play with injection timing with a view to getting the fuel charge delivered in a shorter space of time I understand. Thay also raise common rail fuel pressure earlier in the rev range to allow short injector opening times.

They results are very impressive. You will be impressed.

One little caution here. When you replace the MAF sensor don't turn the car on until the new one is connected otherwise the ECU might well flag a fault. Celtic will probably replace the MAF for you if you're not happy about doing it.
 
Yeah celtic say they will push it to 165 bhp and 300 lb/ft torque. I like thoses fiqures considering it is the torque that im looking for.

Anyways was speaking to a guy that deals with car performace, styling parts etc. He had sayed i already have a pipercross panel filter in, but it needs a good clean so getting a cleaning kit from him tomorrow.

He sayed i will see a 5-7 power driffrence from a panel filter such as that one.

A 5-12 power diffrence from blocking the EGR valve.

And round about a 10/15/20 power diffrence from straight through exhaust - no cat.

He sayed i should be sitting no lower than 170. Maybe 175.

:D
 
roryp15 said:
Yeah celtic say they will push it to 165 bhp and 300 lb/ft torque. I like thoses fiqures considering it is the torque that im looking for.

Anyways was speaking to a guy that deals with car performace, styling parts etc. He had sayed i already have a pipercross panel filter in, but it needs a good clean so getting a cleaning kit from him tomorrow.

He sayed i will see a 5-7 power driffrence from a panel filter such as that one.

A 5-12 power diffrence from blocking the EGR valve.

And round about a 10/15/20 power diffrence from straight through exhaust - no cat.

He sayed i should be sitting no lower than 170. Maybe 175.

:D
Click to expand...

mate im no expert but anybody trying to sell something will tell you what you want to hear
and from what ive read you will see 160hp +/- a few and 300lb torque +/- a few this is basically the best/reliable figures you will get from the standard turbo!! if you want more its a turbo upgrade im afraid my mate
 
He wasnt trying to sell me anything hes a mate of a mate and iw as just asking roughly how much power. He sayed ill be sitting minmum 170 with a remap ( celtic runing ) an exhaust. De cat, EGR block and my panel filter which i have it just needs a clean.

Just going to replace my MAF tomorrow anc clean my filter. My car is running at 74 bhp and 170 lb/ft torque " says " dastek.
 
roryp15 said:
He wasnt trying to sell me anything hes a mate of a mate and iw as just asking roughly how much power. He sayed ill be sitting minmum 170 with a remap ( celtic runing ) an exhaust. De cat, EGR block and my panel filter which i have it just needs a clean.

Just going to replace my MAF tomorrow anc clean my filter. My car is running at 74 bhp and 170 lb/ft torque " says " dastek.
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mate you seem to misunderstand/or are mislead the turbo on you car is the major part that will determine your final power output!!! and if your mapper is good he will map it with performance and reliability in mind and you will end up with the figures close to quoted above
irrelevant of filters/cats/exhaust!!!
 
so roughly whats the price for a bigger turbo? hybrid turbo? is that the only two options after the map then?
 
Personally I would hope he maps it with the best power and torque figures avaliable within 90% of the injectors duty, and airing slightly on the rich side for safetys sake as I'm guessing it's your daily driver. Too much boost will blow the HG or worse, and as said, it also depends a lot on how much your turbo can actually compress and flow.

Filters etc will only help improve the final figure within the constraints of the head, turbo etc as you can't say "right I'm going to map it to 175bhp blah blah bang on". It doesn't work like that. You can only map it and then dyno it to see what figures you achieve.
 
roryp15 said:
so roughly whats the price for a bigger turbo? hybrid turbo? is that the only two options after the map then?
Click to expand...

No. You can continue with a larger exhaust etc etc until you are no longer gaining any power. The price of hybrid turbos varies wildly depending on the turbo itself, application etc. Also, makre sure the car is running tip-top before your map (oil, filter, clean injectors, glow plugs etc) as this will help achieve better figures.
 
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yeah well i think ill get an oil change this week hopefully think im going to phone celtic this week try get the map for saturday. Does it matter if i do oil after remap? How do i clean injectors?

Also i have been told that the engine is only used to 115 bhp and 210 lb/ft torque and im planning on taking it to atleast 170-180 and over 300 lb/ft torque. I heard that i will end up blowing the engine.

What parts go eg pistones, valves? do i need to replace them at somepoint?

Also is there a BIG diffrence between the 115 and 150?
 
herb said:
mate you seem to misunderstand/or are mislead the turbo on you car is the major part that will determine your final power output!!! and if your mapper is good he will map it with performance and reliability in mind and you will end up with the figures close to quoted above
irrelevant of filters/cats/exhaust!!!
Click to expand...

Unless all the mods are done before the remap so whoever does can take them into account. But a don't think you'll get much more than whats been quoted. Give it a go and let us know. You never know we might all be suprised. Including yourself. Keep us posted on progress buddy.
 
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