Oil advice for modifiers

oilman

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If you are modding your car and adding BHP or using it off road then consider your oil choice carefully as the stock manufacturers recommended oil will not give you the protection that your engine requires.

A standard oil will not be thermally stable enough to cope with higher temperatures without "shearing" meaning that the oil will not give the same protection after a couple of thousand miles as it it when it was new.

Let’s start with the fundamentals. An engine is a device for converting fuel into motive power. Car enthusiasts get so deep into the details they lose sight of this!

To get more power, an engine must be modified such that it converts more fuel per minute into power than it did in standard form. To produce 6.6 million foot-pounds per minute of power (ie 200 BHP) a modern engine will burn about 0.5 litres of fuel per minute.(Equivalent to 18mpg at 120mph). So, to increase this output to 300BHP or 9.9 million foot-pounds per minute it must be modified to burn (in theory) 0.75 litres.

However, fuel efficiency often goes out of the window when power is the only consideration, so the true fuel burn will be rather more than 0.75 litres/min.

That’s the fundamental point, here’s the fundamental problem:

Less than 30% of the fuel (assuming it’s petrol) is converted to all those foot-pounds. The rest is thrown away as waste heat. True, most of it goes down the exhaust, but over 10% has to be eliminated from the engine internals, and the first line of defence is the oil.

More power means a bigger heat elimination problem. Every component runs hotter; For instance, piston crowns and rings will be running at 280-300C instead of a more normal 240-260C, so it is essential that the oil films on cylinder walls provide an efficient heat path to the block casting, and finally to the coolant.

Any breakdown or carbonisation of the oil will restrict the heat transfer area, leading to serious overheating.

A modern synthetic lubricant based on true temperature-resistant synthetics is essential for long-term reliability. At 250C+, a mineral or hydrocracked mineral oil, particularly a 5W/X or 10W/X grade, is surprisingly volatile, and an oil film around this temperature will be severely depleted by evaporation loss.

Back in the 1970s the solution was to use a thick oil, typically 20W/50; in the late 1980s even 10W/60 grades were used. But in modern very high RPM engines with efficient high-delivery oil pumps thick oils waste power, and impede heat transfer in some situations.

A light viscosity good synthetic formulated for severe competition use is the logical and intelligent choice for the 21st century.

You must seriously consider a "true" synthetic for "shear stability" and the right level of protection.

Petroleum oils tend to have low resistance to “shearing” because petroleum oils are made with light weight basestocks to begin with, they tend to burn off easily in high temperature conditions which causes deposit formation and oil consumption.
As a result of excessive oil burning and susceptibility to shearing (as well as other factors) petroleum oils must be changed more frequently than synthetics.

True synthetic oils (PAO’s and Esters) contain basically no waxy contamination to cause crystallization and oil thickening at cold temperatures. In addition, synthetic basestocks do not thin out very much as temperatures increase. So, pour point depressants are unnecessary and higher viscosity basestock fluids can be used which will still meet the "W" requirements for pumpability.

Hence, little or no VI improver additive would need to be used to meet the sae 30, 40 or 50 classification while still meeting 0W or 5W requirements.

The end result is that very little shearing occurs within true synthetic oils because they are not "propped up" with viscosity index improvers. There simply is no place to shear back to. In fact, this is easy to prove by just comparing synthetic and petroleum oils of the same grade.

Of course, the obvious result is that your oil remains "in grade" for a much longer period of time for better engine protection and longer oil life.

If you would like advice then please feel free to ask.


Cheers
Guy
 
Good info there oilman, thanks for posting. What oil do you recommend for an Audi 1.8T Sport?

What do you think of oils that claim 2 years 24,000 miles before you change it? Is this true?
 
ok then,
i have a 2.2 vtec prelude and ive always used 10w40 gtx magnatec, never had a problem

ive since put on a full stainless steel exhaust and induction kit, the problem is now that
every now and then it i get a smell of burnt oil, and the oil level has dropped

but, only when the oil is a bit used, after i service it, it wouldnt happen for a couple of weeks,

my piston rings are NOT knackered, it dosent put smoke out the exhaust, and my sparkplugs are bone dry, no trace of oily sutty stuff,
plus its only after passing the nct with very low emmissions, i know the car is 100%

this has only happened since ive put on this stainless steel manifold and exhaust, and with reading your post mate, its got me thinking,

whats your thougfhts on this
 
AMSOIL's products are amongst the best you can buy in my opinion. Many so called synthetic oils, or worse, those claiming to use synthetic technology are little more than blended oils.

Castrol did a good job of marketing Magnetec - I was always under the impression that the Magnetec range was semi-synthetic.
 
AMSOIL's products are amongst the best you can buy in my opinion. Many so called synthetic oils, or worse, those claiming to use synthetic technology are little more than blended oils.

Castrol did a good job of marketing Magnetec - I was always under the impression that the Magnetec range was semi-synthetic.
it is
 
Oilman will give you a very definitive answer to that. The VTEC system utilises oil pressure to engage the high lift cams at somewhere between 5500 and 6000rpm so get some advice from Mr Opie.

Personally I'd always go for a fully synthetic oil but this may not be so important with petrol engines as they don't create the amount of soot and crap that diesels do.
 
Good info there oilman, thanks for posting. What oil do you recommend for an Audi 1.8T Sport?

What do you think of oils that claim 2 years 24,000 miles before you change it? Is this true?

What year is your Audi? And is it on the longlife or fixed service schedule?

The long life oils will go the distance and for certain usage (motorway sales reps) it works well, for a normal low daily mileage car I am not a fan.

Cheers

Guy
 
ok then,
i have a 2.2 vtec prelude and ive always used 10w40 gtx magnatec, never had a problem

ive since put on a full stainless steel exhaust and induction kit, the problem is now that
every now and then it i get a smell of burnt oil, and the oil level has dropped

but, only when the oil is a bit used, after i service it, it wouldnt happen for a couple of weeks,

my piston rings are NOT knackered, it dosent put smoke out the exhaust, and my sparkplugs are bone dry, no trace of oily sutty stuff,
plus its only after passing the nct with very low emmissions, i know the car is 100%

this has only happened since ive put on this stainless steel manifold and exhaust, and with reading your post mate, its got me thinking,

whats your thougfhts on this

What happening there is as the oil get tired it breaks down, this also means thinning. So it is more likely to use/burn oil, the oil will also not be protecting so well.

I wouldnt bother with a 10w-40 semi, especially the GTX. I would go 5w-40 synthetic for all year round use.

Cheers

Guy
 
AMSOIL's products are amongst the best you can buy in my opinion. Many so called synthetic oils, or worse, those claiming to use synthetic technology are little more than blended oils.

Castrol did a good job of marketing Magnetec - I was always under the impression that the Magnetec range was semi-synthetic.

Amsoil is very good, just damn expensive by the time it arrives in the UK.

All magnatec is hydrocracked mineral despite what they may say.

Cheers

Guy
 
Amsoil is very good, just damn expensive by the time it arrives in the UK.

All magnatec is hydrocracked mineral despite what they may say.

Cheers

Guy

Thanks for clearing this up. I've been telling my father for years that it wasn't a synthetic oil.

I was using AMSOIL 5w/40 DEO for my remapped 2.2 Peugeot. Sadly that car no longer exists (thanks to the berk who drove straight across me from a T junction on a derestricted road) so there's 7 litres or so of the stuff here if anyone wants it.
 
dam if it was 5/35- petrol version i would have taken it off you mate. i agree its expensive but after nearly 10k it still looked near enough new. shame my VW specialist uses the standard long life VAG stuff
 
What year is your Audi? And is it on the longlife or fixed service schedule?

The long life oils will go the distance and for certain usage (motorway sales reps) it works well, for a normal low daily mileage car I am not a fan.

Cheers

Guy
It is a 2000. Maily short spirited drives. I tend to steer away from long life changes although I have still been using the Audi long life oil.
 
dam if it was 5/35- petrol version i would have taken it off you mate. i agree its expensive but after nearly 10k it still looked near enough new. shame my VW specialist uses the standard long life VAG stuff

I used to use oil for diesles in my high mileage metro, it has chemicals similar to engine flushes in it to reduce carbon deposits etc but it isnt quite as harsh as the additives, so reduces the chance of blocking up oilways or anything like that.

Used it without fault for 2 years :)
 
What happening there is as the oil get tired it breaks down, this also means thinning. So it is more likely to use/burn oil, the oil will also not be protecting so well.

I wouldnt bother with a 10w-40 semi, especially the GTX. I would go 5w-40 synthetic for all year round use.

Cheers

Guy
nice 1, it makes sense now

since installing these mods, i have obtained an even heavier right foot, and doing more mileage,
 
What about for a 2.0 TDI CR in an Octavia vRS (09), doing generally low mileage (usually 5 miles to work and back)?
 
do u know anything about extralube zx1?

DON'T USE OIL ADDITIVES, PERIOD!

The only possible exception is flushing agents, and the Jury is still out on the value and benefits of those. Under controlled conditions they might provide some benefits, but at what cost long term?

I have used flushing additives in the past, and have never had problems but then I'v never had a problem to resolve either so my comments are to be considered arbitrary.

It's been suggested that some can cause problems that didn't previously exist.

My advice, and Guy from Opie Oils will bear me out - DO NOT ADD ANYTHING TO YOUR ENGINE OIL.
 
do u know anything about extralube zx1?

Yep, we had it tested and dont bother with it.

This is what its all about.

General Remarks on Chlorinated Additives.
A number of ‘add-on’ additives intended to improve the performance of commercially available automotive lubricants have been marketed in recent years, under such names as ‘Xxtralube ZX-1’, ‘Metol FX-1’, ‘PPL Anti-Friction’ and ‘Activ-8’.All such products share the following characteristics with ‘X-1R Friction Eliminator’:-
They all contain chlorinated paraffin ‘exteme pressure’(EP) compounds first used in the 1930s in heavily-loaded industrial gearboxes, and in some automotive transmission applications, mainly hypoid gears.

They all corrode copper-based alloys at moderate temperatures, easily exceeded in all engine, and most transmission applications.This problem was recognised in the 1930s, and chlorinated compounds were never used in transmissions with bronze bearings or gears. No responsible manufacturer ever suggested using them in engines where their increasing activity at high temperatures could lead to piston ring corrosion and bore glazing. (For the same reason, modern ‘hypoid’ additives are not used in engines, even though they are much safer than any chlorinated additive.)

X-1R Friction Eliminator and its clones are based upon very outdated technology, which was abandoned by responsible lubricant manufacturers for automotive transmission uses in the 1950s. Chlorinated compounds still find applications in metal working, but their use is on the decline because of health and safety considerations.

When burnt, chlorinated paraffins produce corrosive hydrochloric acid, and organo-chlorine compounds including the highly poisonous phosgene gas. Apart from these corrosion and health hazards, with petrol engines the deactivation of exhaust catalysts is also a problem.

Unfortunately, these additives give spectacular results in simple EP test machines such as the ‘Falex’. As a marketing ploy, a demonstration of this type looks impressive to those not aquainted with the above facts. Also attractive is the low cost of chlorinated compounds, allowing profits of several thousand percent to be made.

Cheers

Guy
 
dopieoil man. Don't you get bored with pulling that same old crap out of the drawer? You might know something about oil. The fact is you know nothing about Extralube ZX1! It is not chlorinated parrafin??? It never has been?? It has been around for nearly 30 years! It has an insurance policy that if you use it and it causes a problem they will pay for the damage! Guess what in 29 and a half years of trade they have not made one pay out. It has gone in the most expensive cars in the world. Brand new engines to the oldest and no problems. Just non stop praise! You are on lots and lots of these forums and you try to crush anyone who has praise for the product! You are a total fool and you keep getting shut down by people who test this product and have no problems. The products you list are xxtralube zx1. I can't find this anywhere? Extralube ZX1 I can. I have worked with he company for 10 years and have seen this go in 1000's of engines gearboxes etc. No problems at all just scaremongering by a few morons like you!!! Ask the MD at Beaulieu motor museum why all the cars there have it in them? I can give you so many business's who use it and solve so many problems caused by the manufacturers. That is why it isn't popular with them and the likes of they want to take your money as much as possible and this stops them! If anyone wants to hear real experience let me know and I can put you in contact with people you need to be corresponding with! Dopie oil man you sound more and more like a sick parrot! As time goes by and more people use this product you will be proven to be the idiot that you are. You do not know what you do to people who need this product you fool!
 

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