Nurburgring's fastest FWD production car

T

TommyTwinCams

Track Warrior
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I found this on the Cobalt forums and it was an interesting read with many facts. I don't know about you, but I still consider the Cobalt the fastest FWD production car around the Nurburgring.
On another forum someone mentioned that it's possible because Honda ran an 8:03 in '95 with an NSX-R and that an Evo X GSR ran a 7:57. So here is my long winded response. Most of it's fact. I winged a little like the tires used on the Cobalt. Couldn't find that info:

Neither of those are FWD. The 2008 Cobalt SS is the fastest production FWD car around the 'ring.

There hasn't ever been a stock EVO that has beaten the stock 2008 Cobalt SS around the 'ring. The EVO time of 7:57 is a hoax. Why it's still on Wikipedia I don't know. There are lots of threads on this but the best info is here:

AMS denies it here:
AMS Evo X 7:57 at Nordschleife last month? - Page 3 - EvoXForums.com - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X Forums

How whoever posted the time came up with 7:57 is here:
AMS Evo X 7:57 at Nordschleife last month? - Page 4 - EvoXForums.com - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X Forums

Now, regarding the fastest production FWD times...

For a while the '08 Cobalt had the fastest FWD production car 'ring record. Since then the Cobalt has only been beaten by two other "production" FWD cars. I use the term production loosely because the only two cars that have beaten the Cobalt since 2007 have both been Renaults made specifically to have the title as fastest FWD car around the 'ring. More below.

The Cobalt that took the 'ring record was exactly as it was available for around $22K at any Chevy dealership. When the economy took a #!#!#!#! in the fall of '08 you could get this car for $18K. The tires used were Continental Extreme Contact DW 225/40/18. All season Continental DWS tires were an option. The record was set in October 2007 using a stock '08 Cobalt SS. The time was 8:22.85. (Later the 2008 Cobalt ran a 9:06 on a wet track with the optional all season DWS tires)

Eight months after the Cobalt set the factory FWD record (June 23, 2008), that record was beaten by the Renault Mégane RS R26.R with a time of 8:16.90. Here are some notes on what it took for that Renault to beat the stock 2008 Cobalt SS:

- A car based on Renaultsport's 230 F1 Team R26, but 271 lb lighter
- Only 450 were made (possibly the minimum requirement to be considered a production car?)
- Not produced at a regular factory on an assembly line but made where Renault made their rally/race cars
- Polycarbonate windows (etched with a map of the 'ring after setting the record)
- Polycarbonate tailgate/hatch
- Carbon fiber shelled seats with aluminium base
- Completely gutted except for a driver and passenger seat.
- Carbon fiber hood.
- There was only one airbag on the driver's steering wheel. (Nowhere near the amount of heavy required safety features on the Cobalt)
- The climate controls, radio and sound proofing were removed.
- A track suspension that was hardly bearable on the street
- Optional Toyo Proxis R888 tires 235/40/18 were used (Michelin Pilot Sport 2s were standard)
- A price tag of over $50K USD
- Because of the limited safety features, crumple zones, reinforcing, etc. the car came with an optional roll cage. Even though the roll cage was an option, very few (I've read less than ten) were actually sold without a roll cage.
- Six bolt seat harnesses came stock (again, likely due to the lack of heavy safety features required for the Cobalt)
- Optional titanium exhaust

So basically it took a racecar disguised as a production FWD using technicalities to beat the Cobalt. Even then the the Renault only managed to beat the Cobalt by less than six seconds around a 14 mile track.

Since the Renault Mégane RS R26.R "ringer" beat the Cobalt record, it has been beaten again by another Renault. The new record holder is the Renault Megane RS Trophy with a time of 8:07.97 on June 17, 2011. (Less than 15 seconds faster than the record set four years earlier by the 2008 turboed economy/rental car mass produced by GM)

You can see the specs on the current recordholder here:

Renault Megane RS 265 Trophy lap times and specs - FastestLaps.com

I know a lot about this because I own a 2008 Cobalt SS. I don't really care that much. Anyone who knows about cars or researches the FWD production car 'ring records will know that the Cobalt really is the fastest. Plus, he Cobalt has been dead for over two years now.

There's a lot of excitement these days over the 2013 Ford Focus ST. It's a turbocharged direct injected version of an econobox. The suspension is tweeked and Recaros are thrown in and it has a more colorful interior along with an exterior enhanced by sportier bumpers/sideskirts. It only took Ford five years to offer the equivelant of the 2008 Cobalt SS. LOL (I absolutely love the Focus ST btw)

IMO the 08-10 Cobalt SS is the most "bang for the buck" car you can get. It really depends on what you like though. There have been other cars over the past five years or so that are better or worse, depending on how you look at them.

The closest contenders are:
- Mazdaspeed3 which is slightly slower in the straights and turns but has a far better interior and build quality (except for the engine) and has a better resale value.
- GTI which is slightly slower than the MS3 but has the best interior in the class and is just a really well rounded car with excellent resale value.

Then there are others like the Mini Cooper S, Civic Si, WRX, Mitsubishi Ralliart

I'd love to see more hot hatches/economy cars. Hopefully we do. I just hate all the hype about automatics, hybrids, plug ins, NGVs, etc.

Gas+stick = win. I don't care if a dual clutch can shift 5000x faster than me. I want to interact with my car.

|Book. Bored and watching football. If my Cobalt had nuts I'd be swinging on them.
Click to expand...

For those questioning this "Cobalt" I'm referring to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnVK6WOTVmI
 
very Interesting as 'ring lap times has always been a thing of mine .

That 8.22 is the 165th fastest time ever recorded (according to the official records) so not something I would personally want to shout about

But since you have

you may be right about the mods required for that renault but another megane has also beaten that time in a more standard form as well .

I am also rather perplexed because for some reason you have decided to pick on a couple of awd jap cars to compare it and "take their times apart"

I notice you have chosen the slower ones ?

What about the GTR and I dont mean the latest one . All the GTR models back to the year dot were quicker than the colbalt in 2008

I have a nissan skyline 32GTR which is completley stock and that went quicker around the ring than the cobalt in 1989

and yes I do mean nineteen eighty nine
 
So we are told the Cobalt ss is the fastest FWD production car around the ring, then given two FWD production cars that are faster?

Only in America.
 
I'm sure there are a lot more fwd cars that would be quicker around the ring, just that most manufacturers have got better things to do than take there cars around a german track to prove some stupid point. 260bhp isn't exactly much bhp out of a so called 2008 performance saloon, Volvo had that sort of BHP in 1996, typical yanks 10 years behind all the European and Japanese cars.
 
There's an argument to say that the r26.r was a disguised tracl car but the current megane trophy 265 is a proper fully equipped family road car, satnav, cruise, climate etc.
 
MasterAuron said:
So we are told the Cobalt ss is the fastest FWD production car around the ring, then given two FWD production cars that are faster?

Only in America.
Click to expand...

The point is the Cobalt had a full interior, safety features, and was built on the exact same assembly line as ordinary base model 155HP 2.2L Cobalts. Renault made those 2 cars specifically to take the fastest FWD crown away from the Cobalt, because it's apparently a slap in the face to have an American FWD economy car be the fastest FWD around a vaunted racetrack. The Renaults had no interior, creature comforts, back seat, had only 1 airbag, and were built completely separated from normal Megane's. In the words of Jeremy Clarkson "The only thing that Renault is good for is going fast... and not very well at that".

Is it street legal? Maybe in some countries, but not all countries. There's a line between production and street legal, and Renault crossed it. The Cobalt is a production car and legal in all countries (even if it wasn't sold outside North America), unlike the Renault. The Renault is a street legal racecar too specialized to be counted as production.


SLEEPER said:
very Interesting as 'ring lap times has always been a thing of mine .

That 8.22 is the 165th fastest time ever recorded (according to the official records) so not something I would personally want to shout about

But since you have

you may be right about the mods required for that renault but another megane has also beaten that time in a more standard form as well .

I am also rather perplexed because for some reason you have decided to pick on a couple of awd jap cars to compare it and "take their times apart"

I notice you have chosen the slower ones ?

What about the GTR and I dont mean the latest one . All the GTR models back to the year dot were quicker than the colbalt in 2008

I have a nissan skyline 32GTR which is completley stock and that went quicker around the ring than the cobalt in 1989

and yes I do mean nineteen eighty nine
Click to expand...
First of all, I didn't type that up. I found it as a post on the Cobalt forums and figured you guys would find it entertaining. I don't own a Cobalt. I own it's sister car, the Saturn Ion coupe ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xFNo8CcsSc ).
Speaking of old GTRs, did you notice the FWD economy car, the Cobalt SS Turbo, is 6 seconds faster around the 'ring then the R34?
1274664389985.jpg
[/IMG]

claymore said:
I'm sure there are a lot more fwd cars that would be quicker around the ring, just that most manufacturers have got better things to do than take there cars around a german track to prove some stupid point. 260bhp isn't exactly much bhp out of a so called 2008 performance saloon, Volvo had that sort of BHP in 1996, typical yanks 10 years behind all the European and Japanese cars.
Click to expand...
Someone's biased. Did I EVER say 260 HP was a lot? And the Cobalt wasn't tuned specifically to be fastest around the Nurburgring. They were testing out the Turbo model at the ring (2005-2007 Cobalt SS' were supercharged and 205 HP) because the previous supercharged Cobalt didn't meet new 2008 model year Emissions standards.

Don't mock the engine, because you Europeans got the exact same engine in the Opel GT ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhRE3Z40WmA ). What's this? Europeans raving about the same engine?

As for being "behind Japanese makes", The 205HP, 200 ft-lbs Cobalt SS Supercharged came onto the scene in 2005 specifically to target the Honda Civic Si which had 197 HP, and 139 ft-lbs. When GM found out the Supercharged engine didn't meet 2008 emissions, The looked around the global Ecotec family, finding the turbo engine in the Opel GT that had been jointly developed between Opel, and Saturn. GM toook the engine (originally designed to motivate a RWD 2 door 2 seat sportscar), mounted it transversely, attached the Cobalt SS Supercharged's Saab F35 transmission, and sent it around the ring. They liked the combo so much, they put it straight into production with the Turbo SS replacing the supercharged on outright. They were shocked the difference it made and threw the car around the Nurburgring for s***s and giggles, where it then took the FWD record in June of 2008. Even the European 300 HP Focus RS couldn't beat the Cobalt 'round the 'ring. In the American market, the car was now targeted more at the Mazdaspeed 3 (or Mazda 3 MPS as you probably know it), and the VW GTi, neither of which could keep up with the Cobalt through corners or in a straight line. 10 years behind? I think not. It's also of note that the Cobalt is also heavily related to a European car in it's own right, sharing the chassis and suspension components with the Vauxhall Astra.


Yugguy said:
There's an argument to say that the r26.r was a disguised tracl car but the current megane trophy 265 is a proper fully equipped family road car, satnav, cruise, climate etc.
Click to expand...
So the next questions are:
Is it built in the same factory on the same assembly line as normal Megane's?
Is the suspension soft enough to be able to use it for daily driving without developing back problems?
 
Exactly, it's an Astra with a GM badge, so why harp on about an american car when it uses an european chasis, engine and gearbox....lol
 
claymore said:
Exactly, it's an Astra with a GM badge, so why harp on about an american car when it uses an european chasis, engine and gearbox....lol
Click to expand...

Well.... yes and no. The engine IS Eurpean, and at the same time not. For the history on that we need to dig back into the history of the ecotec engines, but the short end of it is this: The chain drive ecotec engines (the Cobalt's N/A 2.2, and 2.4L, the Cobalt SS' supercharged 2.0L, and turbocharged 2.0L) were all designed and engineered by Saturn in Spring Hill, Tennessee with light involvement from Opel. The first cars to debut a new Ecotec were always Saturns until Saturn was killed off in 2010.
first 2.2L Ecotec? 2000 Saturn LS1.
2000-saturn-l-series-4-dr-ls-sedan-pic-62053.jpeg

first 2.0L supercharged? 2004 Saturn Ion Redline.
Saturn-Ion_Red_Line_2004_800x600_wallpaper_01.jpg

first 2.4L VVT ecotec? 2006 Saturn Sky and 2006 Saturn Ion
saturn-sky_sidefront1.jpg

first 2.0L turbocharged VVT SIDI? 2007 Saturn Sky Redline (quickly followed by the Pontiac Solstice, then the Opel GT, then the Cobalt SS Turbo, then the HHR SS, then the Daewoo G2X)
skyredline07_w800.jpg


And the Delta Chassis used by the Astra and Cobalt can also be claimed to be American. First car ever on the Delta platform? 2003 Saturn Ion. Or 2 years before any other Delta platformed variants came along. I own a 2004 Saturn Ion.
 
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TommyTwinCams said:
So the next questions are:
Is it built in the same factory on the same assembly line as normal Megane's?
Is the suspension soft enough to be able to use it for daily driving without developing back problems?
Click to expand...

In a word, yes.

You need to research Renaultsport more. You are right with the R26.R, but not the trophy 265.

Look at this ad:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201232481135307
and this:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201231480689880

Air Conditioning,Split Folding Rear Seat,Height Adjustable Driver's Seat,CD Player,Front Electric Windows,Rear Parking Sensors,Electrically Operated Door Mirrors,Remote Locking,Headlamp Wash,Front Centre Armrest,Multi-function Steering Wheel,Adjustable Steering Column,Airbag's.

Not a stripped down race car. All renaultsports are made seperately from the normal megane but they are still mass-produced.
 
Yugguy said:
In a word, yes.

You need to research Renaultsport more. You are right with the R26.R, but not the trophy 265.

Look at this ad:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201232481135307
and this:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201231480689880

Air Conditioning,Split Folding Rear Seat,Height Adjustable Driver's Seat,CD Player,Front Electric Windows,Rear Parking Sensors,Electrically Operated Door Mirrors,Remote Locking,Headlamp Wash,Front Centre Armrest,Multi-function Steering Wheel,Adjustable Steering Column,Airbag's.

Not a stripped down race car. All renaultsports are made seperately from the normal megane but they are still mass-produced.
Click to expand...

I never said I didn't have research to do. The R26.R didn't deserve it's title and because of the LARGE difference in time between the R26.R and the Resnaultsport 265, I assumed it was much the same. I'll admit I was wrong, but I'm still a bit ticked at Renault for advertising they had something they didn't honestly earn with the R26.R

And for those claiming the Cobalt's 260 HP isn't impressive, GM offered stage kits that upped the power and kept the original warranty.
Stage 1: 280-290 HP, 320-340 lbs-ft
And thats enough for most people, Aftermarket tunes after that are used for more power.
 
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woooooh, calm down , this is the friendly forum, What English car is in the list? I'm English and wish I lived in the US of A or France..

I LOVE AMERICA AND FRANCE, THERE SAID IT.
 
Mg could have I reckon if they hadn't been raped by feckless management in true uk style.

Mate if you like cobalts you carry on. I'm with james may tbh about how useful the ring is.
 
A FEW POINTS

you cant quote something and then use the excuse you didnt write it . You posted it not anyone else

As for times it is possible to go down the list and find all kinds of times but you were talking about the fastest ones by a colbalt so let me give you SOME FACTS

You best time for a 2008 colbalt is in fact slower than the time of my 32 GTR set 20 years earlier
The fastest time of a standard R 33GTR (the next model) is 8.01 and that is age quicker and the 34 is well known to be quicker still .

The fact that you can find a slower time means nothing other than someone drove a 34 round slower than the fastest ever time by anyone in a 2008 colbalt

Fact is that isnt as quick as a stock 1989 32GTR

and the idea of records is they are validated and accepted . You cant just say the renault time is rubbish because it doesnt suit you..
 
Thought I would resurrect this thread so peoples project threads stay their own

I don't believe my last post was answered ...............
 
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