Need some info

[TommyTwinCams]

As many of you know, Diesel is not very popular in the states, but it is gaining traction here. For the longest time, only VW offered diesel powered cars in the USA. Recently, Mazda and Chevrolet have offered diesel powered cars to compete with the VW's. Mazda offers a 2.2L turbo diesel in the new Mazda6, and Chevrolet is experimenting with offering a 2.0L turbo diesel in the Cruze.

I'm asking for info on the Chevy. I know the US model makes less power and much less emissions over here, due to US emissions regulations on diesels. The US model makes 151 HP and 264 lb-ft of torque and uses a system involving urine to clean up emissions that GM has used on their big diesel trucks for years. Now the reason I'm asking for info is I can't really find info beyond this on it. The engine is NOT a Chevrolet design, but rather a Fiat JTD engine. Fiat doesn't use the engine or any diesel for that matter here in the states, So I can't really go to a Fiat dealer and ask about the diesel and Chevy dealers are unfamiliar with it as well.

Given my unfamiliarity with diesel engines in general due to living in the states, I am asking for info on the engine from my European friends here who're more familiar with the engine family. What's the aftermarket support like? Other features of the engine I don't know? Computer tuning/remapping? What are the major differences to modding a Diesel rather than a gasoline/petrol powered car? What are recommended mods for a diesel car? Spare no details. I am curious.

 

[HDi fun]

The JTD respond very well to remapping - it's likely this will be the only mod you'll ever need.

According to Celtic Tuning the 150bhp 16 valve engine will tune to 212bhp and 327lbft.

That should keep you going nicely.

The exhaust treatment system you speak of is a diesel particle filter (DPF). Urine is not involved. It uses urea as part of the process. I am not familiar with this particular type of DPF.

 

[TommyTwinCams]

Ah. I misread about the urea system then. Thank you for explaining it.

Sounds like it would make a good tuner car. The US model is only being launched with a 6 speed automatic transmission because Chevrolet is unsure of how successful a diesel powered Cruze will be here. I've been told to expect a 6 speed manual transmission later when I b*&ched about it to a Chevrolet official at the New York International Auto Show.

 

[HDi fun]

Automatics have come on a bundle - even the torque converter type ones. Six speeds and an automatically locking torque converter would partner a torquey diesel very nicely indeed.

Keep in mind as well that 330lbft in a remapped JTD engine is the sort of torque figure that you'd need 4-5 litres of naturally aspirated gasoline fuelled V8 to achieve. Trust me, you'll love the midrange clout.

 

[TommyTwinCams]

My hatred of automatics is not about what they can do, but the way they act in general.
They are never in the gear I want and I have to force them to change gear by modulating the throttle.

And my dad's 5.3L V8 truck makes 323 lb-ft.

 

[HDi fun]

OK - automatics are only reactive not predictive.

But you take my point about torque - you'll get that 300+ lbft from a remapped M-Jet 1.9 diesel with ease.

WRT to driving automatics you get used to the transmission and it's basic shift points - as such you CAN control it's behaviour with your right foot.

I drive auto and manual quite happily and it's not often the automatics are in the wrong gear.

With modern learning autos (and the Steptronic style override does allow you to rule over it totally) you're not likely to get caught out very often.

I know so many people who eulogise about the control they have with a manual transmission yet they are always in the wrong gear anyway.

Don't dismiss a decent auto is my suggestion.

 

[TommyTwinCams]

I also have a problem with automatics when the engine has an electronic throttle body. If the 6 speed automatic in the Cruze Diesel is anything like the 6 speed automatic in my Dad's Silverado, I'll pass. I just got back from using the truck to do some shopping for dinner. Put my foot to the floor and I timed it. I waited 5 whole seconds before anything happened. It was like the transmission forgot it was a transmission. Am I a pet? Am I a cauliflower? OH LORD! I'M A GEARBOX! Quick! Swap some cogs around!

I'm sure that communication time could be severely reduced with a good tune, but my point stands.

 

[HDi fun]

That sounds like a fault condition to me. Drive by wire is supposed to improve response not flatten it.

 

[davalav]

If your interested in the car mate, test drive one. You maybe very surprised!

 

[turbonutter69]

The Chevy Cruse is an absolute dog of a car if I was you i'd steer clear.

 

[TommyTwinCams]

Haha. I'm not considering it. I don't wanna buy one. So why am I asking? Because I pride myself on keeping up with American market tuner cars.
GM's current tuner cars are:
Chevrolet Cruze

Chevrolet Sonic

Buick Verano

Buick Regal

So I try to keep up to date on American market domestic tuner cars. Beyond those, other cars I try to keep up with are the Ford Focus, Ford Fiesta, and Dodge Dart. Any changes to those line ups and I try to stay on top of it.

 

[SLEEPER]

Tuning a diesel isn't as easy as tuning a petrol engine . I imagine this is because most diesels , as in road cars , are built for economy .

Autos have improved a whole lot so I don't think you can ciompare an old auto any more than you can compare an old petrol engine with a new generation on

And if I had a car that took five seconds to react as og said I'd be looking for the fault

 

[TommyTwinCams]

It doesn't normally take that long to react. Only when I floor it. It reacts like something came out of left field and confused it. I keep telling Dad it needs a tune but he says he doesn't plan on having it much longer than another year so what's the point?

 

[SLEEPER]

then dont base an entire rant on the fact that it does

 

[TommyTwinCams]

EVERY car with an electronic throttle body I've ever driven has had a noticeable delay before any reaction. As for ranting about it... honey, I'll rant about what I want. Don't like my rant? Then chew your tongue and swallow it.

But this is off topic. Back to the JTD diesel engine.

 

[HDi fun]

It doesn't need a 'tune'. It needs repairing.

 

[TommyTwinCams]

It doesn't need a 'tune'. It needs repairing.

You clearly don't deal with American vehicles often. A tune can make a world of difference in throttle response.

 

[HDi fun]

You're right I don't. What is a 'tune' anyway?

This isn't directly a throttle response issue though is it? It's a transmission not shifting down issue by the way you describe it.

On a technical note diesels don't have throttles anyway.

 

[Ronbros]

what is with this kid?

 

[old-git]

On a technical note diesels don't have throttles anyway.

Ouch

 

[TommyTwinCams]

You're right I don't. What is a 'tune' anyway?

This isn't directly a throttle response issue though is it? It's a transmission not shifting down issue by the way you describe it.

On a technical note diesels don't have throttles anyway.

Tune = Remap

The computer on that truck is factory tuned so the throttle won't respond until the transmission does, which makes for some massive delays. This is why a computer tune makes such a different

Like I said. Don't know much about diesels.

what is with this kid?

Bite me.

 

[Ronbros]

i dont think you know much about anything!

the 1st American Sport compact was the rear engined CORVAIR 6 cyl flat boxer engine,
and the last of the corvair cars were great, i know i owned one 1965 Spyder convert.

i still got a 4 carb engine from one. no pix.

 

[HDi fun]

i dont think you know much about anything!

the 1st American Sport compact was the rear engined CORVAIR 6 cyl flat boxer engine,
and the last of the corvair cars were great, i know i owned one 1965 Spyder convert.

i still got a 4 carb engine from one. no pix.

He does confess to not knowing much about diesels in fairness. But.... when information is imparted (which is what he's asked us to do) he declares we all know nothing !!!

And that is starting to grate slightly.

So come on Mr TTC - let's get the ball on the floor, please.

 

[TommyTwinCams]

I'm not saying you guys know nothing period. I said in regards to how computers often control American vehicles, particularly GM vehicles. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. GM often uses PCMs that control EVERYTHING about the powertrain (hence the name Powertrain Control Module). Often whenever these PCMs are remappable ("tune-able" in American English), EVERYTHING is capable of being adjusted from the reaction times of the electronic throttles to adjusting when the cooling fans come on to even the VIN number. They are SO open ended during remapping/tuning, I have seen a 20 valve 4AGE-powered Toyota Corolla running a PCM from a 2002 Chevrolet Cavalier... though it did require using the wiring harness from said Cavalier. American GM vehicles with an electronic throttle often have a noticeable delay.

In the Cobalt scene, this has been tested against cable driven throttle bodies of 2003-2004 Saturn Ions and it was found the cable driven throttle bodies react faster with the physical connection than the electronic throttle of all 2005+ Delta cars. However, when tuned (remapped), the reaction times of the electronic throttle bodies became almost immediate, reacting faster than the cable driven throttle bodies. They CAN react faster, but American vehicles usually require a remap to do it. This said, not all GM PCMs are tuneable (hence why I'm preparing to swap to a 2005 Ion ECM). Despite having quicker throttle response than 2005+ electronic throttle equipped Ions and Cobalts, 2003-2004 Ions have computers that cannot be remapped. They are also unique in that they use a separate computer for the engine/emissions and another computer for the transmission (if equipped with an automatic transmission). While My car's computer is not remappable, my father's truck's is.
Known companies that tune GM PCMs:
HPTuners
Trifecta Performance
Sinister Performance
My point is that having my father's truck tuned/ramapped would make a world of difference in transmission behavior and throttle response, and that it is NOT a mechanical fault that needs to be fixed.

Now onto the diesels. After learning that they do not have throttles, I am warming up to the idea of an automatic equipped diesel car. Noting that. I'm guessing they control idle speed through controlling the fuel amount? The only problem at the moment I can see with the Cruze diesel in America is no company supports tuning the PCM yet, though I do expect HPTuners to pick up on it relatively quickly. They usually do.

And Ronbros. I actually adore Corvairs despite their reputation. They were the second ever production turbocharged car (The first was the Oldsmobile F85 with a turbocharged 215 V8 that was launched a week or so before the Corvair's turbo model.)

 

[HDi fun]

Pretty much every car is under full electronic management now and I don't find any problems at all. Accelerator cables are a thing of the past.

 

[pgarner]

was thinking that any vauxhall ive been in doesnt seem to have any more issues with response than other factory left cars. why would GM introduce an issue with their cars but take it out when they swap the steering wheel to the right side and fit a griffin on the front

 

[HDi fun]

was thinking that any vauxhall ive been in doesnt seem to have any more issues with response than other factory left cars. why would GM introduce an issue with their cars but take it out when they swap the steering wheel to the right side and fit a griffin on the front

Exactly what I was wondering. OK I am not the world's greatest Vauxhall fan but a 5 second delay in downshift isn't gonna be fixed with a 'tune-up'. It is undoubtedly a fault.

 

[Ronbros]

if the truck TTC mentions,it just needs a reprogram of trans. and engine,so they will work together.

my Buick with LS engine and auto trans,drove and shifted perfectly up or down.

in fact if traveling around 50-60mph,in 4th gear,ad floored accel.pedal, it would go right to 2nd gear, passing past 3rd INSTANTLY, car goes sideways, and your gone down the road.

and it has electronic throttle control!

 

[HDi fun]

But why would the manufacturer program in a five second delay in downshift? There is no point.

I highly suspect either corrupt ECU code or a transmission fault in TTC's case.

My car is full drive-by-wire and that responds crisply to part or full throttle kickdown. It'll go fro 6 to 2 in one hit if necessary and the coding is totally factory standard.

 

[Ronbros]

HDi , i go along with that.

 

[Ronbros]

some times strange things can happen; i havnt mentioned my 65 corvair in many years, on post 22, it popped into my head,.

and today on net, one appears,go figure.

when you got nothin to do, google, chevyhardcore.com/crownv8 corvair