Limp mode when accelerating 3.5-4k rpm

[bangwhosnext]

Hi, new to the forum and looking for a bit of help.
Had my car recently remapped and now the car goes into limp mode (with an Engine management light) whenever I put the boot down (about 3.5-4k rpm).

When this happens, pulling the car over and restarting it solves the problem, but this means I have to keep it under the 3.5K rev range at all times.

I told the guy who did the tuning and he asked me to bring it back to him, but I wont get a chance for a few days because of work commitments.

So, my question is, what is likely the cause of this and what would be the solution?

I like the map and the drive-ability of the car is very good now, so I don't really want anything changed other than for this problem to be rectified...

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[obi_waynne]

Sounds like it's running out of fuel or boost at that point, the map needs adjusting. It could be an issue with injectors, air flow sensor, turbo etc causing this. Often a map will highlight weak spots and issues you never noticed before.

Run some engine cleaner through the tank to clean the injectors and intake, this might help smooth it out. Running higher cetane fuel may also help. *(we only recommend BG fuel cleaners at the moment - they work quite well, see the link to the right of the forum homepage/main site (on some pages for details) or follow our ebay link at the bottom and search for BG products.)

 

[HDi fun]

I had exactly the same thing in my 528i except it occurred over 5000rpm. Diagnostic check read something like 'sporadic misfire cylinder 5'.
Cheap and simple fix - new coil for that cylinder. Cost around £30. If it had been a VW it would have required all the coils to be replaced as a set at a cost of about £150 each!!

(Sorry, just noticed yours is a diesel model, disregard the above apart from getting a diagnostic fault code read performed and go with Waynne's suggestion).

 

[wolfmankurd]

[QUOTE="HDi fun, post: 291315, member: 303"Cheap and simple fix - new coil for that cylinder. Cost around £30. If it had been a VW it would have required all the coils to be replaced as a set at a cost of about £150 each!![/QUOTE]

Had the same issue on my clio and a new coils were needed. But again that was a petrol. Interestingly some of the ODBII readers logged the fault as "moisture on glow plug" or something -- Guess not everything you find on the app store is flappy birds quaility. Curious....

 

[T9 man]

Greetings and a warm welcome to our TorqueCars forum

 

[HDi fun]

[QUOTE="HDi fun, post: 291315, member: 303"Cheap and simple fix - new coil for that cylinder. Cost around £30. If it had been a VW it would have required all the coils to be replaced as a set at a cost of about £150 each!!

Had the same issue on my clio and a new coils were needed. But again that was a petrol. Interestingly some of the ODBII readers logged the fault as "moisture on glow plug" or something -- Guess not everything you find on the app store is flappy birds quaility. Curious....[/QUOTE]

I have Gendan code reader which is VW specific and some of the translations are very, err, literal.

 

[Yugguy]

Could be turbo overboosting or as obi says its not pumping enough fuel for full boost. Did you get the most aggressive map?

 

[HDi fun]

Possibly but it's actually quite hard to overboost if there's insufficient fuel. New fuel filter perhaps?

 

[Aerial Andy944]

Faulty O2 sensors were the cause on my gtr when it did this. Replaced and it revved all the way to redline.
Oh Hi and welcome to TC forums BTW

 

[bangwhosnext]

Sounds like it's running out of fuel or boost at that point, the map needs adjusting. It could be an issue with injectors, air flow sensor, turbo etc causing this. Often a map will highlight weak spots and issues you never noticed before.

Run some engine cleaner through the tank to clean the injectors and intake, this might help smooth it out. Running higher cetane fuel may also help. *(we only recommend BG fuel cleaners at the moment - they work quite well, see the link to the right of the forum homepage/main site (on some pages for details) or follow our ebay link at the bottom and search for BG products.)

Thanks Obi, this gives me some things to work with... will also check out the fuel cleaners you mentioned. Thanks.

Greetings and a warm welcome to our TorqueCars forum

Thanks T9.

Could be turbo overboosting or as obi says its not pumping enough fuel for full boost. Did you get the most aggressive map?

This first map I got a about 2 months ago was a safer map as the clutch couldn't handle the higher one, so I changed the clutch and flywheel about 6 weeks ago, then last week I opted for the more aggressive map which is when this problem started.

Possibly but it's actually quite hard to overboost if there's insufficient fuel. New fuel filter perhaps?

I haven't given the car a full service yet as I only have it about 3 months, so I don't know if the fuel filter was changed. Full service history for the first 3 years but nothing after that...(car is 2010). Might be worth replacing the fuel filter. Thanks.

Faulty O2 sensors were the cause on my gtr when it did this. Replaced and it revved all the way to redline.
Oh Hi and welcome to TC forums BTW

Interesting, someone at work mentioned they had the same problem with an e39 530d and replacing the o2 sensor solved the problem... will look into this too. I'll know more tomorrow or Tuesday when I take it back to the tuner to get the fault code read...

Thanks guys for all the replies.

 

[SLEEPER]

If something has happened after a remap i suggest you simply take it back and get it done properly.
It is far more likely the map is the issue than something stopping working coincidently at the same time

Of course a lot of mappers will tell you different rathe than admit it is their fault

 

[bangwhosnext]

If something has happened after a remap i suggest you simply take it back and get it done properly.
It is far more likely the map is the issue than something stopping working coincidently at the same time

Of course a lot of mappers will tell you different rathe than admit it is their fault

Yeah, the problem has obviously occurred because of the new map, and taking it back to the old map would probably solve the issue, but the problem is that I like the new map (apart from this obvious 'limp mode problem').

I'm hoping the tuner can fix the problem by making some adjustments, but if he tells me that in order to run this new map, I would need to replace or upgrade something relatively inexpensive, then i'll more than likely do that; but hopefully it can be sorted by the tuner without having to replace anything.

 

[HDi fun]

Or the new map has highlighted the issue, which has already been said. Of course, no tuner is ever likely to admit to their code being the root cause, nor admit to not checking things thoroughly before recoding the ECU.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll prevail in the end. Keep us updated !!

 

[bangwhosnext]

Or the new map has highlighted the issue, which has already been said. Of course, no tuner is ever likely to admit to their code being the root cause, nor admit to not checking things thoroughly before recoding the ECU.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll prevail in the end. Keep us updated !!

Yes, its definitely possible that there was already an underlying issue that has been highlighted by this remap. Hopefully I'll get to the bottom of this over the next few days. Will report back when I find out the cause and solution...

 

[HDi fun]

It can't be serious otherwise it would drive badly all the time. I am still thinking about fuel filter and, as Waynne says, some chemical cleaning for the injectors. DPFs can be interesting though these too can be helped with a cerium based diesel fuel additive. Maybe, just maybe, the DPF is slightly occluded and the flow restriction is manifesting after a remap with it being unable to carry the greater exhaust flow?

I know that Torque Cars only recommends one additive brand but Wynns (amongst others) carries diesel additives with the cerium component. I use them (even the DPF specific ones) in my non-DPF VW, it does assist in lowering the ignition temperature of accumulated soot. Worth a throw but well worth talking to your tuner firstly. Have that conversation. No accusations or allegations, instead play the 'I really like your work can you help me out approach'. Works wonders

 

[bangwhosnext]

It can't be serious otherwise it would drive badly all the time. I am still thinking about fuel filter and, as Waynne says, some chemical cleaning for the injectors. DPFs can be interesting though these too can be helped with a cerium based diesel fuel additive. Maybe, just maybe, the DPF is slightly occluded and the flow restriction is manifesting after a remap with it being unable to carry the greater exhaust flow?

I know that Torque Cars only recommends one additive brand but Wynns (amongst others) carries diesel additives with the cerium component. I use them (even the DPF specific ones) in my non-DPF VW, it does assist in lowering the ignition temperature of accumulated soot. Worth a throw but well worth talking to your tuner firstly. Have that conversation. No accusations or allegations, instead play the 'I really like your work can you help me out approach'. Works wonders

Forgot to mention... had the DPF removed also on the first map about 2 months ago as it was blocked and no amount of driving would regen it.

Thought about going for a Terraclean at some stage also, but maybe changing the fuel filter and adding a good diesel injector cleaner might be a good idea first.

As regards to my tuner, I've been using him for years and he's done about 4-5 cars for me in the past. He always stands over his work and is very helpful, so I have no intention of arguing with him as there is no need.

 

[HDi fun]

Totally fair and thanks for updating. I had a 2.2 litre Peugeot (engine DW12TED4) remapped back in 2006, long before DPFs were widely acknowledged. That car was fitted with one. The remap didn't take full account of this and it did play up a bit initially.

 

[SLEEPER]

it is only my opinion but you took a car in for mapping and it came back with a fault . This should have been obvious to hime so I stand by what I said.

 

[SLEEPER]

I have just realised from the replies that my definition of mapping is different to some peoples.

IMHO mapping is when you take a car to a tuner , He asks you what you want in terms of performance/ecoomy/driveability/etc . He then puts it on a rolling road and adjusts as neccessary solving all the issues throughout the rev range . Your car has then been mapped and what you are describing would stand out like a sore thumb and would be easy for a "mapper" to fix.

Taking your car somwhere and havng a pre determined map added isnt really mapping and dosnt need any real skill
If you just change one map for another there can often be problems because the map isnt 100% right.
After all its off the shelf from someone elses car.

So ignore my comments because it sounds like someone has just installed a different map possibly without even road testing the car .

 

[HDi fun]

Indeed. There are some tuners who do exactly that. Re-flash the whole engine control code with a generic new map. Not the ideal way to go about it, though for modest increases it's OK.

I am still slightly surprised that the tuner didn't take the car for a test drive straight afterwards though.

 

[Yugguy]

"This first map I got a about 2 months ago was a safer map as the clutch couldn't handle the higher one, so I changed the clutch and flywheel about 6 weeks ago, then last week I opted for the more aggressive map which is when this problem started."

There's your problem. You'll be pushing the limits of the standard turbo and fuel pump. It's also possible your intake temps have gone so high that a sensor is cutting the boost.

 

[bangwhosnext]

I have just realised from the replies that my definition of mapping is different to some peoples.

IMHO mapping is when you take a car to a tuner , He asks you what you want in terms of performance/ecoomy/driveability/etc . He then puts it on a rolling road and adjusts as neccessary solving all the issues throughout the rev range . Your car has then been mapped and what you are describing would stand out like a sore thumb and would be easy for a "mapper" to fix.

Taking your car somwhere and havng a pre determined map added isnt really mapping and dosnt need any real skill
If you just change one map for another there can often be problems because the map isnt 100% right.
After all its off the shelf from someone elses car.

So ignore my comments because it sounds like someone has just installed a different map possibly without even road testing the car .

Okay, the car has been tuned... not sure if this is a standard program, but he does make adjustments to the programs and has in the past to iron out any rough spots or problems.

The reason it wasn't properly tested is kind of a long story, but basically he was very busy all week, I wanted it done that day, so he only got a chance to do it at 9pm and I never got it back til 11.30pm ( he also had another commitment after me), so he probably never got a chance to to test it properly in all fairness.

"This first map I got a about 2 months ago was a safer map as the clutch couldn't handle the higher one, so I changed the clutch and flywheel about 6 weeks ago, then last week I opted for the more aggressive map which is when this problem started."

There's your problem. You'll be pushing the limits of the standard turbo and fuel pump. It's also possible your intake temps have gone so high that a sensor is cutting the boost.

I hope not, cus I like the way its driving now... (apart from the obvious)

 

[Yugguy]

Well you can upgrade turbo, fuel pump and even intercooler. The engine will very likely be fine.

Maybe injectors but they're pricey.

 

[bangwhosnext]

Well you can upgrade turbo, fuel pump and even intercooler. The engine will very likely be fine.

Maybe injectors but they're pricey.

I'm hoping I'll not have to upgrade anything and maybe just a minor adjustment to the program will sort out the problem.

Clutch and flywheel already cost me £700 all in + £350 for DPF removal and remap.

Also just bought new wheels and tyres which cost £800 all in.

 

[HDi fun]

Cheap tyres!!

 

[bangwhosnext]

Cheap tyres!!

Not really... wheels £500... tyres £75 each... could've gone a lot cheaper on the tyres.

 

[HDi fun]

Do you really want to drive on cheap tyres?

 

[bangwhosnext]

Do you really want to drive on cheap tyres?

No, the tyres I got are fine, but in retrospect, I probably should've gone for better ones...

 

[Yugguy]

What make are they? Ive had midrange bf goodrich at 60 a corner for a couple of years now and i rate them highly.

 

[SLEEPER]

Clearly you have had your map changed and this is becoming very popular as power gains can deinately be made.
IMHO this isnt because the maps are good but because manufacturers only have their eyes on the stats they can use for selling cars. Out the factory cars are often tuned for the mpg stat so obviously when this is done an increase in power is always possible
The whole car is built to run the state of tune the car is sold with so it isnt surprising that if you go for power some parts may need changing.
Just my opinion (again ) but you could have bought an used aftermarket ecu and had the car properly mapped on a rolling road for Under £1k and that would include a few other parts.
You would then have a faster and more economical car .
Proper mapping on a rolling road is actually great value once you have paid for the ECU and the gains are far greater .

 

[Aerial Andy944]

Do you really want to drive on cheap tyres?

Tyre performance has increased and cost reduced over the past few years. I run 225/45/17 Falken FK452 which are brilliant and at under £75 a corner excellent value. Far better than the Pirelli PZeros I used to have at £130 a corner. Good performing tyres are not that dear nowadays especially with the internet sites like Black Circles etc..

 

[HDi fun]

That's a fair point. Today's midrange tyres perform like premium brands from 5 years ago. I had a set of Falken Ziex914 on the front of the Passat. They drove equally as well as Michelin Primacy 3, probably better through standing water but they were finished after about 6000 miles. Given the price of eighty quid each that's acceptable. I have gone back to Michelin this time, cost around £120 each but will probably see 10,000 from them.

Not much in it really. in some ways the Falkens probably better value because I don't mind chucking away an eighty quid tyre with 3mm tread on it. With a £120 tyre I really feel the need to wring em out to 2mm.

Very modest 215/55 R16 97W fitment btw. If anyone knows a good source let me know.

 

[bangwhosnext]

What make are they? Ive had midrange bf goodrich at 60 a corner for a couple of years now and i rate them highly.

Got a good deal on a set of 4 Kumho's for £300, they seem fairly good so far in the recent weather we've been having.

Clearly you have had your map changed and this is becoming very popular as power gains can deinately be made.
IMHO this isnt because the maps are good but because manufacturers only have their eyes on the stats they can use for selling cars. Out the factory cars are often tuned for the mpg stat so obviously when this is done an increase in power is always possible
The whole car is built to run the state of tune the car is sold with so it isnt surprising that if you go for power some parts may need changing.
Just my opinion (again ) but you could have bought an used aftermarket ecu and had the car properly mapped on a rolling road for Under £1k and that would include a few other parts.
You would then have a faster and more economical car .
Proper mapping on a rolling road is actually great value once you have paid for the ECU and the gains are far greater .

Never thought about changing the ECU... I will be seeing my tuner today, so will ask him about this.

Tyre performance has increased and cost reduced over the past few years. I run 225/45/17 Falken FK452 which are brilliant and at under £75 a corner excellent value. Far better than the Pirelli PZeros I used to have at £130 a corner. Good performing tyres are not that dear nowadays especially with the internet sites like Black Circles etc..

I was looking at falkens before I went with Kumho's... they looked pretty good too.

 

[HDi fun]

I might give Kumhos a go next time. I also think I really like the Pirelli's Cinturato P7 Blue. Seems to get very good write ups. . .

 

[Aerial Andy944]

Just gone over to Dunlop SportMaxx in last few weeks as the Falkens developed a sawtooth edge causing a lot of cabin noise. It's a common problem on mk5 Golfs apparently. They are same price and certainly much quieter with road noise. I'll see how they last now, anything over 8000 miles I'll be happy with, Golfs eat front tyres very quickly

 

[HDi fun]

^ Strangely I had a similar problem with Uniroyal Rainsport 2 on the front of my 5 series. The noise was so bad that I thought I had failed wheel bearings. Replaced with Primacy HP (*marked for BMW) and silence was restored. I guess some tyres just don't suit some cars

 

[T9 man]

Just gone over to Dunlop SportMaxx in last few weeks as the Falkens developed a sawtooth edge causing a lot of cabin noise. It's a common problem on mk5 Golfs apparently. They are same price and certainly much quieter with road noise. I'll see how they last now, anything over 8000 miles I'll be happy with, Golfs eat front tyres very quickly

Is the car geometry ok Andy? Is there a subtle change that you could invoke to make the tyres last longer or would the handling be effected do you think?

 

[Aerial Andy944]

^ Strangely I had a similar problem with Uniroyal Rainsport 2 on the front of my 5 series. The noise was so bad that I thought I had failed wheel bearing

Exactly what it sounded like. VW recommend the Pirelli PZero MO spec (Mercedes) tyre but at double the price it's hard to justify especially when the Pirellis would only last 6000 miles. I'll see how these Dunlop's last, certainly quiet.
Anyway we're going off topic here a bit. Any news on the original mapping query?

 

[Aerial Andy944]

Is the car geometry ok Andy? Is there a subtle change that you could invoke to make the tyres last longer or would the handling be effected do you think?

Yep have that done each time I change tyres which is nearly on a yearly basis. Mk5 Golf GTs are notorious for eating front tyres as they have quite a high camber setting

 

[bangwhosnext]

So I got my car back last night... running perfect now.

The tuner admitted he hadn't tested all the gears thoroughly due to being pressed for time, so he took more time last night to iron out any problems.

The car is actually a bit more lively now than it already was, and I took it to the read-line through gears 1-4 without any issues and she pulls like a train. Didn't need to change any more parts either, so happy days.