Illegal Chipping ????

pgarner

TC ModFather
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Does anybody have any idea what illegal chipping is and how you can test for it ?

page 8
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MoT - Issue 48 - Oct 2010.pdf

its do do with the new MOT testing that is supposed to be coming into force next year.

finally looking like Aftermarket HID conversion kits will be a nono and a remapped car was going to be a fail as well.
but reading that it only states

Other items – such as headlamp
bulb and unit incompatibility,
headlamp levelling devices and
illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need
further thought before we can get
a workable solution for MOT
stations.

the 1st bit pretty much says about aftermarket HIDs in the wrong enclosers but illegal engine chipping ?
 

obi_waynne

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Could be the end of an era. I don't think there is much they can do other than a tighter emissions test.

This could easily spread to other engine modifications as well. :(
 

T9 man

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Well it looks like I will have to buy another ECU for next year now! :(
One for the MOT & the other one just for FUN! :)
 

stamford

Pro Tuner
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MG ZS200
What defines 'illegal chipping'? A remap is just an interrogation of the standard map installed and literally fine-tuned to remove the wide tolerance built in for the average 'joe' who doesn't maintain their cars or is fussy about the grades of pump fuel used.

Mine has been remapped, the parameters tweaked to make the most of the current set-up, it has also improved the high end fuelling which was woefully inadequate in current form.

My car also runs a decat and a MIL kit, both of which are invisible and for the last three MOTs it has passed the emissions test with flying colours (it does have pre-cats in both manifolds). For the record all of my mods are declared and nothing is hidden from my insurer.

So unless the MOT tester has a factory specification map of the ecu and has the time to plug it in and run a check, how are they to know? It'll need a rolling road to find out the true specification in order to get a readout surely? If they are looking for a code for the factory map then surely a remapper will clone this and change the parameters?

I really think it'll be a hard one to police and may lead to a few palms being crossed with silver in order to obtain a pass.
 

HDi fun

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Chipping (this covers a variety of disciplines from the very poor to the very good) or remapping (which is a much more precise art) cannot be rendered illegal directly. If the vehicle passes the emissions tests and does not emit visible smoke during driving then there is no problem.

The other requirement is that the engine check and emissions management light(s) illuminate and go off in the correct sequence. So bulb removal is not an option. I suspect that if you recoded the ECU to FALSELY make the lamps 'behave' correctly then this would be illegal. But if the remap does not force a fault condition then I cannot see how it can be challenged under current legislation.

HID retrofits are completely different. There IS specific legislation concerning these things.
 

clio197MJB

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England - Barnsley
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RS Clio 197 2.0
just buy one of those handheld modules that has a specific ecu setting for your car, k-tec racing do one for the 197, basically you buy the module that has the remap on it, plug and play in the clio, then if u are having a MOT or service from the dealer you can reset the ecu with the module while you have the mot and change it back when you get home :)
 

pgarner

TC ModFather
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Lockerbie, SW Scotland
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Octy smoke machine
So unless the MOT tester has a factory specification map of the ecu and has the time to plug it in and run a check, how are they to know? It'll need a rolling road to find out the true specification in order to get a readout surely? If they are looking for a code for the factory map then surely a remapper will clone this and change the parameters?

I really think it'll be a hard one to police and may lead to a few palms being crossed with silver in order to obtain a pass.


this is the problem, over the models life how many time is the map updated ? the tester could end up with a lot of maps and not sure which one to lose

just buy one of those handheld modules that has a specific ecu setting for your car, k-tec racing do one for the 197, basically you buy the module that has the remap on it, plug and play in the clio, then if u are having a MOT or service from the dealer you can reset the ecu with the module while you have the mot and change it back when you get home :)

yeah plenty of places are now doing them, you can have the standard and tuned map stored on it. comes in handy if you were to put it into a garage for any work to be carried out
 

pgarner

TC ModFather
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Lockerbie, SW Scotland
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companies are working around that problem. and how many garages are going to have the time to go through all the measuring blocks to find out how many times it has been flashed ?
 

jarrus

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True they do have flash counters, but this still isn't enough to prove that the car has been tampered with, sure it will make them sceptical but there wouldbe no direct evidence to support such acusations, for example you could say you had to take it to a different dealer while you were away on holiday for example and they looked at the ECU files. That story couldn't be disproved either.

And again, it would be hard to prove you had a remap or not. infact any engine mods really are legal as long as the car passes the emissions test/MOT at a test station.
Although, it could mean that remapping cars after "X" time will be illegal. I mean BMW have become wise to remapping the 35i engines and any map on the later models canbe detected by the dealer, so who knows..... I still think it will be applied to new cars built after a certain date if they ever did it, they couldn't do it to older cars as this would make thousands of cars (including mine and most of the cars on here) illegal which would cause a huge uproar from motorists.
 

HDi fun

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I think that the Government should tighten up on uninsured and untaxed cars, unlicensed drivers, cars over 3 yrs old without MoT certs, bald tyres and general bad problems such as these before clamping down ever harder on us legitimate drivers.
 

jarrus

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I couldn't agree with you more chap,
Ill maintained cars should be targeted, just because some people deside to drive old cars like myself doesn't mean they are killing the planet.
I hate illegitimate drivers. That said however though, insurance for younger drivers does need to be addressed. For example, I have a friend who is 18 years old and drives a Citoren Saxo 1.4 and has now had his full license for a year and has got 1 years NCB and has no points on his license. He came to renew his insurance and his current insurer wouldn't insure him for a second year and nither would most other insurance compaines and the ones that would were charging £4000 just because he was a young male driver, now he's sold his car because he doesn't want to drive it uninsured or have to pay to maintain while he can't drive it. My point is that the FSA and the govenment should do more to lower the premiums of younger drivers so they can actually afford to pay them then theres less chance of people driving with no insurance.
I can see why people like him would do it, I know it's wrong on soooo many levels but really how else can they drive a car?
 

HDi fun

TC ModFather
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Location
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Insurance for new drivers does need addressing. This guy has done nothing to attract this ridiculous premium and let's face it, a 1.4 Saxo is hardly God's gift to high performance cars.

Did the insurer elaborate beyond 'young male driver' as to the exact cause of this outrageous figure?
 

HDi fun

TC ModFather
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Basically it's an OBDII box then which allows you to swap maps at will, yes?

Do these actually obscure the flash counter and CRC checksums? If so, then this might be an interesting option for my mates Avensis D4D 2.2

They've been clever here and locked it to one specific car/ECU.
 
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lutonmatt

The Torque Meister
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chatham kent
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82 trans am kitt
read about this somewere else as well today

as a mot tester i can say it will mostly not happen anytime soon if at all

there is a few bits that are coming into the mot sometime in the next 2-3 years and that is air bag /srs lights and engine management lights alot of cars will fail on them 2 alone
another one they was talking about is towbar electrics we test the ball ect now but not to that high standard
after all a mot test is a min road saftey test

as for telling if it has a chip in the ecu that will never come in due to the possable law suits
since you pluged that scanner in my ecu has blown up ect

and the hid's at the min we only test the beam patten and if it works
they have been talking about testing the brightness for years and meaning most mot bays will have to upgrade there headlight tester
it should of been 2008 then 2010 now 2014

so if that does come in you have years to go yet
 

pgarner

TC ModFather
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Location
Lockerbie, SW Scotland
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Octy smoke machine

this is the a common thing that alot of mapping companies use. chipped uk, celtic tuning both use the same device but with their details on it

Basically it's an OBDII box then which allows you to swap maps at will, yes?

Do these actually obscure the flash counter and CRC checksums? If so, then this might be an interesting option for my mates Avensis D4D 2.2

They've been clever here and locked it to one specific car/ECU.

wont work with the Toyoto mate as they wont accept new maps. basically it is just a device for reading the map, and uploading one. unless its included in the new map the flash counter will still go up. again it wont do the checksums itself as these will be stored on the map from xxxxxxx company.
chipped uk i know (and i think celtic are the same) you buy the said device and use it on your car. it will read the standard map, you email it off and they send the modified generic map - check sums etc set for the ecu


They've been clever here by locking it to one specific ECU/car.

nope, if its ktec use it in the same way as other companies if you reload the standard map back onto the car then you can use it on your next car. you just new the specific maps. if you leave the modified map on the car and want to use it again then you have to pay a unlocking fee as well as the new map

there is a few bits that are coming into the mot sometime in the next 2-3 years and that is air bag /srs lights and engine management lights alot of cars will fail on them 2 alone
as for telling if it has a chip in the ecu that will never come in due to the possable law suits
since you pluged that scanner in my ecu has blown up ect

i wonder if this is what they mean by illegal chipping - where the light comes on. good point on reading the ECU and then the car not running right.
 

lutonmatt

The Torque Meister
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197
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chatham kent
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82 trans am kitt
have heard it all before doing mots

some people think its a full check
had it once did a mot 3 weeks later they come back with the clutch gone they tryed blaming us for not telling them it was on its way out
 

Yugguy

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As Stamford says on page 1, what defines "illegal"? I've had 2 mots since my remap and passed both as my emissions are not affected. The only way I can imagine they could define illegal would be any map or chip put on by anyone other than the manufacturer. Banning these would put a LOT of companies out of business overnight, what government would want that? It would also require all MOT testing centres to carry ECU query and diagnostic equipment for EVERY car, otherwise how could they tell?
 

jarrus

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Suzuki Swift Sport
Very true, and what about those of us running an aftermarket ECU? What happens then?
Surely they can't fail you for Illegaly chiping your car when it is designed for custom mapping. also this headlamp leveling thing...what's that all about? my car has a device so I can dip the beam of the lights further if I'm carring wieght in the back so they don't blind on coming cars
 

HDi fun

TC ModFather
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637
Location
Buckinghamshire UK
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Passat 2.0 TDi
Very true, and what about those of us running an aftermarket ECU? What happens then?
Surely they can't fail you for Illegaly chiping your car when it is designed for custom mapping. also this headlamp leveling thing...what's that all about? my car has a device so I can dip the beam of the lights further if I'm carring wieght in the back so they don't blind on coming cars

They light levelling was in reference to HID fitments.
 

HDi fun

TC ModFather
Points
637
Location
Buckinghamshire UK
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Passat 2.0 TDi
The reason for the compulsory self levelling with HIDs is because of the high levels of brightness generated and the glare this can cause if the beams are mis-aligned.
 

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