Hello from Atlanta

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silver92b

Wrench Pro
Points
28
From
Atlanta, GA USA
Car
Miata NA6
Hi guys, I joined the forum and just now I see that there is a dedicated place for the MX5 Eunos (Miata in the US). Anyway, I am on my 4th round of MX5 ownership (this last car I owned before and got it back).
Anyway, I am trying to find out all I can about tuning, maintaining and customizing my car since I've been away from the marque for several years.

My car, A '92 1.6, has a Sebring M45 supercharger that makes 9~10 psi. My fuel management is rather primitive (AFPR, 1.8 injectors) which I would love to upgrade. I have a Jackson Racing Boost retard control module, so my ignition timing is pretty well sorted out. I also have a Jackson Racing header and a new exhaust on order. I also upgraded the brakes to the 1.8 larger brakes, the clutch too is a 1.8 Exedy stage 1. I have a Torsen LSD with 4.1 gears and the suspension is handled by Fortune Auto 510 coil overs and stock sway bars.

As I said, I hope to learn what are the newer options available to fuel management and generally tips on tuning the engine. Here are a couple of phots of my car.




 
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silver92b

Wrench Pro
Points
28
From
Atlanta, GA USA
Car
Miata NA6
Mozza said:
Hi there from Warwickshire, nice looking Miata, wheels go well with the silver paint work. Does it have an intercooler?
Click to expand...
Thanks, those are some really nice Panasport knock offs. I don't have an intercooler. They make several kinds but they are all too expensive. I would probably do as well with water injection for a fraction of the cost. I just need to get off my duff and start implementing it :blink1:
 
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silver92b

Wrench Pro
Points
28
From
Atlanta, GA USA
Car
Miata NA6
Mozza said:
Take a look at Forge Motor Sport they have fairly cheap Intercoolers.
Safer that water injection and one fitted never touched again.
Should give you a small power increase also.

http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=product&catalog=0013
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link. However, they don't have a Miata specific IC. The problem with buying off-the-shelf units is that fitment can be a nightmare.

The guys at Track Dog Racing make a fantastic intercooler for the exact application I have. However, even that unit, with all the brackets fasteners and parts included, requires a ton of work to make it work. By the time I have an installed and completely sorted out IC, I will have dropped nearly $2K. The water injection can be accomplished much more easily and for a fraction of the IC cost... H2O injection is quite safe too. If the water runs out, you merely stop making as much boost and HP...
 
D

dancingjim

Full member
Points
36
From
anderson island Wash
Car
01 miata MX5
Just reading the post would like to caution you, before adding the H2O to your engine it will make the combustion tempature hot enough to melt aluminum. I have seen the damage from a very small (unoticed) head gasget leak it melted the engine down before the leak was noticed. The re-build required new pistons with sleeves and cost more than an intercooler!
If you like your ride skip the short-cuts, Jim
 
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Mozza

Full member
Points
46
From
England, Warwickshire.
Car
MX5 1.8 Sport 2005
silver92b said:
Thanks for the link. However, they don't have a Miata specific IC. The problem with buying off-the-shelf units is that fitment can be a nightmare.

The guys at Track Dog Racing make a fantastic intercooler for the exact application I have. However, even that unit, with all the brackets fasteners and parts included, requires a ton of work to make it work. By the time I have an installed and completely sorted out IC, I will have dropped nearly $2K. The water injection can be accomplished much more easily and for a fraction of the IC cost... H2O injection is quite safe too. If the water runs out, you merely stop making as much boost and HP...
Click to expand...
This one is mine, a 2005 MK2.5 Sport, fitted with the Trackdog IC, a BRP MP62 and adaptronic.
 
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silver92b

Wrench Pro
Points
28
From
Atlanta, GA USA
Car
Miata NA6
dancingjim said:
Just reading the post would like to caution you, before adding the H2O to your engine it will make the combustion tempature hot enough to melt aluminum. I have seen the damage from a very small (unoticed) head gasget leak it melted the engine down before the leak was noticed. The re-build required new pistons with sleeves and cost more than an intercooler!
If you like your ride skip the short-cuts, Jim
Click to expand...
Not wanting to argue or anything, but you are the first person I've heard with negative comments about H2O injection... You might be right, but I have only heard positive things about it. Never heard about high temp issues... I've certainly never heard that H2O injection was anything like a "shortcut"....

Loz said:
Have you looked at www.flyinmiata.com for Miata specific intercoolers? :)
Click to expand...
Not lately, I doubt they have anything for the M45 blower. They seem to have gone on to bigger and better things :toung: Besides, they are too expensive.

Mozza said:
This one is mine, a 2005 MK2.5 Sport, fitted with the Trackdog IC, a BRP MP62 and adaptronic.
Click to expand...
Fantastic looking set up! My car is a bit older and equipped differently. I'd be lucky to better 150~160 whp on a Dynojet. intercoolers are quite nice and definitely make a difference. However, in my case the IC is way back on the list. They are all quite expensive and I rather find a hard top for my car and pocket the difference :lol:
 
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silver92b

Wrench Pro
Points
28
From
Atlanta, GA USA
Car
Miata NA6
Mozza said:
You dont fancy the fifth injector setup as per fast forwar supercharges then?
http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/
Using fuel to cool the charge rather than water.
Click to expand...
Not really, I did not know about the 5th injector option. The "cold side" blowers are nice and make more power, but the "cold side" claim is misleading. Actually, when the blower is on the "hot side" the charge gets at least a small chance to cool off whilst in the cross tube and a real chance to cool off in an IC.
Most of the heat in the charge comes from the compression of the air and in this case the hot air is put directly into the intake... I think that these newer blowers displace more air, thusly they make more power. I don't like the idea of cooling the charge with more fuel as it uses even more fuel than the super rich mixture I am running now.
I'm not sure, but cooling the charge with H2O or an IC *and* providing a more efficient/advanced fuel delivery control is the real answer.
 
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dancingjim

Full member
Points
36
From
anderson island Wash
Car
01 miata MX5
Hey Silver,
No argument here, the short-cut reference is my opinion of using the H2O injection instead of an IC. the injection systems have been around a long time. Think of it as the 1950's equivilant of using a nitrous oxide system. Ocasional momentary usage is an important part of the concept. Available extra power is addictive and if you are going to use it a lot you will be better served by shelling out the extra coin for a "forced induction system" or an intercooler that increases the density of the air thus allowing it to utilize more fuel effectively. Either way good luck and have fun, Jim
 
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silver92b

Wrench Pro
Points
28
From
Atlanta, GA USA
Car
Miata NA6
Mozza said:
O/K, last option, then I give up. :lol:
Air to Water IC as per the old Moss style IC?
Click to expand...
All the options mentioned have their respective advantages and disadvantages. The Air to water IC requires perhaps a little less rearrangement of parts than the FMIC. I cant remember exactly what the old Moss unit looked like. I guess I ought to look into it...

dancingjim said:
Hey Silver,
No argument here, the short-cut reference is my opinion of using the H2O injection instead of an IC. the injection systems have been around a long time. Think of it as the 1950's equivilant of using a nitrous oxide system. Ocasional momentary usage is an important part of the concept. Available extra power is addictive and if you are going to use it a lot you will be better served by shelling out the extra coin for a "forced induction system" or an intercooler that increases the density of the air thus allowing it to utilize more fuel effectively. Either way good luck and have fun, Jim
Click to expand...
Yes, it is like using NO. And I agree that one might use more water than one thinks... I have noticed that during regular driving my engine goes into boost pretty regularly. Of course, I'm also sure that the H2O injection can be setup to occur only during the higher boost episodes only.

I am not really trying to defend the H2O injection per se. The FMIC is clearly the best all around solution (although you loose a bit of pressure as the charge cools inside the heat exchanger). My only point is that for simplicity and low cost, the H2O injection is a good option.

In reality, I am not contemplating any of those options. My car is too old and tired to do more power adders. The reality of it is that I should probably find a newer or better condition car and transfer my stuff to it. I suspect my engine is low in compression. It smokes a bit when you start it and rev the motor. The tranny needs new synchros and the body needs attention as well. It's probably not the time to spend the money in that way.
 
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silver92b

Wrench Pro
Points
28
From
Atlanta, GA USA
Car
Miata NA6
pgarner said:
i thought h2o injection also lowered the combustion temps as well as the intake ?
Click to expand...
That was my impression as well. I was rather surprised to hear about high temperature issues due to H2O injection. I'll be the first to say that I am no expert in these matters. I just go by what I hear and what I read in the internet. It's very possible that all I've heard is BS and marketing hype....
 
pgarner

pgarner

TC ModFather
Moderator
Points
417
From
Lockerbie, SW Scotland
Car
Octy smoke machine
ive just never really looked into it as had no need for it. plus id be worried about the water running out when im out and about
i know a member on here has it fitted on a diesel and it hought the reason was to lower the combustion temps
 
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Mozza

Full member
Points
46
From
England, Warwickshire.
Car
MX5 1.8 Sport 2005
Water injection is designed to cool the combustion chamber temperature to reduce the chance or eliminate engine knock.

It is better than an aditional fuel injector, but would have expected the price for a propely regulated set up to cost as much as a intercooler.

But finaly it is always the choice of the owner which route they take.

They all have advantages and disadvantages whether it is dificulty in the fitting or the cost to purchase in the first place.
 
S

silver92b

Wrench Pro
Points
28
From
Atlanta, GA USA
Car
Miata NA6
Hello again, I've been gone for a while but I thought I would come back and update my info. Firstly, I have not added any IC or H2O injection to the car... I did check the compression and it read 172,171,175,175. It would seem that the compression is a bit low but the car still runs pretty strongly, so I'll leave it alone.

Instead of worrying about power, I have added a HT and some nice 15X8 +20mm off set wheels. I also recently refinished the original seats and plan to install them. I had a coil-over suspension, but i grew tired of the harsh ride and too low stance. I replaced the Fortune 510 coil overs with a set of Koni Sports dampers with original springs sitting on the lowest perch. I love the ride and it handles brilliantly as well..





 
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silver92b

Wrench Pro
Points
28
From
Atlanta, GA USA
Car
Miata NA6
Bad news about the seat covers. Basically they are junk! While they looked good and fit reasonably well, the material is of such poor quality that it tore during the installation (which we stitched and repaired), and worse yet, just getting in and out of the car, the bolsters are already scratched and torn.

I only weight 145 lbs and I'm fairly slender. The bolsters should definitely last much longer than a few hours! Anyway, I guess all the work and effort of recovering the seats was fairly wasted :p. I will try to at least get a refund from the seller. Do not buy cheap ebay vinyl Miata seat covers.
 
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