Header

CPSycho

Wrench Pro
Points
26
Location
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Car
Proton Gen2 CPS
i've own a 2008 proton gen2 1.6 with CPS engine. now my header is 4-2-1...
i'm thinking to change 4-1 but not like vtec long 4-1 type, this type shorter than that. what do u guys thinks about that...
i really into for the high torques...

p/s- i'm not good in english...:amuse:
 
Hi mate, your English is fine mate so don't worry about that.

The reason why the best header on a VTEC engine is 4-1 is because it increases power at higher RPM, that's where the power band is on a Honda.

I've never owned or driven a Proton so you have to know where the power band is to know what's best.
 
A 4-1 design will probably be best then. A 4-1 setup increase power high up the rpm range, whilst a 4-2-1 design increases power lower down the rpm range.

What exhaust system are you using?

actually my exhaust system is nameless, it's a local made. in Malaysia we call it "cap ayam" is mean "chicken brand" for local made exhaust system. the chicken brand are the only brand that i can afford. i only changed the 421 header,2" mid box (cylinder type) and 2" muffler(oval type) with 5" exhaust tip. my exhaust pipes is still original and the diameter is 2".
with 4-1, did i get the low torque power?

this is one of the sample of the 4-1 header made in Malaysia. :blink1:
 

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actually my exhaust system is nameless, it's a local made. in Malaysia we call it "cap ayam" is mean "chicken brand" for local made exhaust system. the chicken brand are the only brand that i can afford. i only changed the 421 header,2" mid box (cylinder type) and 2" muffler(oval type) with 5" exhaust tip. my exhaust pipes is still original and the diameter is 2".
with 4-1, did i get the low torque power?

this is one of the sample of the 4-1 header made in Malaysia. :blink1:

The 4-1 header (we call them exhaust manifolds) increases power high in the rpm range. So with your redline being at 6000 at your power starting at 4300 it's your best option. A 4-2-1 would increase power where your car won't use it.

A 2 inch diameter is probably about right. What BHP does your car produce?

The sample in the picture looks good. Check the welded areas to make sure they are ok as some of the cheap ones can blow and cause problems.
 
oo ok, so u are suggest that i stick with the current header?
well...as the proton stated on the paper is 125hp but some say is 125bhp. hp and bhp are not the same right?
the price of the sample header that i show u is quite expensive even thou it a second hand header...
 
oo ok, so u are suggest that i stick with the current header?
well...as the proton stated on the paper is 125hp but some say is 125bhp. hp and bhp are not the same right?
the price of the sample header that i show u is quite expensive even thou it a second hand header...

If you can afford to then change the header. Are you running a de-cat pipe? BHP (Brake Horse Power) is the same as HP (Horse Power). HP is just a shortened version.

Don't forget there are other mods you can do to make your car quicker or feel better.
 
so the best setup for my exhaust header is 4-1? did u mean catalytic converter?
i've already took out the cat. in ur opinion, how much the hp will gain with this setup, i mean only the exhaust setup...is it true that hp is come from the engine power not from the wheel power?
 
so the best setup for my exhaust header is 4-1? did u mean catalytic converter?
i've already took out the cat. in ur opinion, how much the hp will gain with this setup, i mean only the exhaust setup...is it true that hp is come from the engine power not from the wheel power?

Yes. A 4-1 header, a de-cat (basically a pipe instead of the catalytic converter) and an exhaust. I would have the exhaust 2 inches (no bigger than 2 1/4 inches) in diameter.

The power gain you'll see will be around 5-10bhp. You'll notice the difference in the throttle response.

BHP is measured both at the flywheel and the wheels. Most car manufacturers give the figure produced at the flywheel. On average a car loses around 17% of that power at the wheels.
 
ok...the 4-1 will be my setup...one more thing, is it ok if i wanna wrap my 4-1 header even thou the material is not from stainless steel?

17% decrease? darn...my cps engine cant defeats the mivec 1.6... :)

anyway, thanks a million for ur opinion and advises. i become from zero to half hero now...hihi...
 
ok...the 4-1 will be my setup...one more thing, is it ok if i wanna wrap my 4-1 header even thou the material is not from stainless steel?

17% decrease? darn...my cps engine cant defeats the mivec 1.6... :)

anyway, thanks a million for ur opinion and advises. i become from zero to half hero now...hihi...

Heat wrapping is a good thing. It'll keep the temperature down. It will look a bit rubbish (kind of like a big bandage :lol:) but as the saying goes... Function over form.

The 17% loss can be helped by a decent set of tyres.

It's what forums are all about mate. Lots of people as crazy abouts cars as we are!

Get some pictures up as well mate.
 
even thou the material is mild steel? no cracking problem if wrap the header?

oo...the tires make the different for increasing the power that lost? this is really new to me. now im using dunlop D01 i think; with 195/55/15. what kind of decent tires that u suggesting?

well...i will do that. :)
 
:amuse: my humble proton gen2 cps...
 

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even thou the material is mild steel? no cracking problem if wrap the header?

oo...the tires make the different for increasing the power that lost? this is really new to me. now im using dunlop D01 i think; with 195/55/15. what kind of decent tires that u suggesting?

well...i will do that. :)

Can you not get a stainless steel one? Mild steel may not be worth the money to be honest.

The better the tyres, the more power you can put down. If they'll fit, you could try increasing the width slightly. I personally use Falken tyres for everyday use.

Pictures look good! What suspension setup are you running?
 
there is a lot of stainless steel header but they are too expensive...but i think i will sacrifice the money for the best.

the tires is very good, the gripping just so perfect. is hard to find the width's tires for 15" rims in my area, if i've found one they will be so mad expensive... :)

hehe...thanks bro. anyway, my setup for the suspension is stock absorber, a sport spring and 30mm front strut bar.

show ur car bro, really wanna see ur beemer.
 
there is a lot of stainless steel header but they are too expensive...but i think i will sacrifice the money for the best.

the tires is very good, the gripping just so perfect. is hard to find the width's tires for 15" rims in my area, if i've found one they will be so mad expensive... :)

hehe...thanks bro. anyway, my setup for the suspension is stock absorber, a sport spring and 30mm front strut bar.

show ur car bro, really wanna see ur beemer.

I would save for the stainless steel mate. It'll be worth it! It should be T304 stainless steel as well. This is the quality stuff.

Maybe try out some 205 width tyres if you can?

Can you get coilovers? They'd make the handling better.
 
Here's my Beemer:

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It's nothing special at the moment. Stock 140bhp and in need of a new clutch. It'll be better by about May time. Keep your out for a project thread ;).

Basic plans are to make it look better, handle better and make it more powerful.

Here's my Honda Civic (which I'm currently selling):

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This is only running around 110bhp but it was fun to drive and taught me a lot. It was lowered by 110mm. I had to go over speed bumps at 1mph! Time to move on with the BMW though.
 
I would save for the stainless steel mate. It'll be worth it! It should be T304 stainless steel as well. This is the quality stuff.

Maybe try out some 205 width tyres if you can?

Can you get coilovers? They'd make the handling better.
ok, i will do that... :)

i'll try my best...

coilovers? did u mean adjustable coilovers? i've already used adjustable almost 2 years and no doubt that adjustable make my car so tough enough to handle the road. sadly...the adjustable is start to make a squecking and cracking noise. one more thing, my wife and kid complaining about they always jumping left and right when i'm driving in a bumpy road:lol:. in malaysia especially in a city called kuala lumpur, the road is do darn suck...path hole here and there...:mad:
for the time been, the stock absorber and sport spring will be enough...:amuse:

both of cars are so darn cool...but honestly i'm really into ur civic:love:...is it single cam vtec? why u wanna sell that cool civic? if i in a northampton, i will buy ur civic:amuse:...what is the price of ur civic?
 
i really into for the high torques....:amuse:

This is, IMO, the important part of your question, as you are after more torque. If that is the case, then you need to use a 4:2:1.

BHP is for boasting in the pub or playing Top Trumps, lbs/ft is for acceleration.
 
out off topics actually but still in a same reason "for better acceleration"
which is better for airflow?
picture 1 or picture 2?
 

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ok, i will do that... :)

i'll try my best...

coilovers? did u mean adjustable coilovers? i've already used adjustable almost 2 years and no doubt that adjustable make my car so tough enough to handle the road. sadly...the adjustable is start to make a squecking and cracking noise. one more thing, my wife and kid complaining about they always jumping left and right when i'm driving in a bumpy road:lol:. in malaysia especially in a city called kuala lumpur, the road is do darn suck...path hole here and there...:mad:
for the time been, the stock absorber and sport spring will be enough...:amuse:

Yeah adjustables. 2 years is a very short time for them to last. I would assume they were cheap, if not I'd be complaining.

both of cars are so darn cool...but honestly i'm really into ur civic:love:...is it single cam vtec? why u wanna sell that cool civic? if i in a northampton, i will buy ur civic:amuse:...what is the price of ur civic?

Thanks mate. It's actually non-vtec. The BMW is a much nicer car to be in. It's more powerful yet more refined. I bought the BMW almost a year ago as my Civic was taken off road for repairs. But I decided I prefered the BMW for everyday driving so the Civic will go to fund the project I'm doing on the Beemer.
 
:confused: i'm confused now...which one is better for acceleration actually?

A 4-2-1 setup will boost power lower down the rev range. A 4-1 will boost it up high. As your power band is up high I'd go with a 4-1 setup.

For example on my Civic I would have gone with a 4-1 as the all the power was in the last few thousand revs.
 
out off topics actually but still in a same reason "for better acceleration"
which is better for airflow?
picture 1 or picture 2?

In all honesty I doubt there is any real difference in performance, just noise. Picture 2 looks like the cold air feed has been routed down to the bumper, but picture 1 looks like the intake is at the front (possible through the grill). Instead of an induction kit it may just be better to up rate the panel filter.
 
A 4-2-1 setup will boost power lower down the rev range. A 4-1 will boost it up high. As your power band is up high I'd go with a 4-1 setup.

For example on my Civic I would have gone with a 4-1 as the all the power was in the last few thousand revs.
ok, i'm going for the 4-1 setup...
 
In all honesty I doubt there is any real difference in performance, just noise. Picture 2 looks like the cold air feed has been routed down to the bumper, but picture 1 looks like the intake is at the front (possible through the grill). Instead of an induction kit it may just be better to up rate the panel filter.

actually in the picture 1, the routed from snorkel to t/body is quite far and its original route factory setup. picture 2, i'm customizing the routed to make it short to the throttle body. the air box are the sport air filter with carbon box shield and i still remain the snorkel. the shorter the air route is better for engine responds right?
 
actually in the picture 1, the routed from snorkel to t/body is quite far and its original route factory setup. picture 2, i'm customizing the routed to make it short to the throttle body. the air box are the sport air filter with carbon box shield and i still remain the snorkel. the shorter the air route is better for engine responds right?

Factory setups are usually quite good. The main ingredient in a cold air intake is cold air. Just make sure the filter does not suck in warm air and it will perform fine.
 
A 4-2-1 setup will boost power lower down the rev range. A 4-1 will boost it up high. As your power band is up high I'd go with a 4-1 setup.

For example on my Civic I would have gone with a 4-1 as the all the power was in the last few thousand revs.

I have to disagree, Prince :)

When accelerating, you spend VERY little time at the top of the rev range, most time is spent increasing RPM and for this you need lbs/ft. For acceleration torque is everything, forget BHP.

For normal driving the 4:2:1 is also much better because it is producing more torque in the rev range you use most of the time.

If you were using the car on the race track in competition the 4:1 would be, IMO, the better choice as you would be spending a lot more time up in the high rev band.

However, for the power levels you are dealing with I doubt that you will notice much, if any, difference on the road if both manifolds are designed for the engine spec.
 
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I have to disagree, Prince :)

When accelerating, you spend VERY little time at the top of the rev range, most time is spent increasing RPM and for this you need lbs/ft. For acceleration torque is everything, forget BHP.

For normal driving the 4:2:1 is also much better because it is producing more torque in the rev range you use most of the time.

If you were using the car on the race track in competition the 4:1 would be, IMO, the better choice as you would be spending a lot more time up in the high rev band.

However, for the power levels you are dealing with I doubt that you will notice much, if any, difference on the road if both manifolds are designed for the engine spec.

We'll have to agree to disagree then :).

I quite like the power being at the higher end of the RPM range. It gives you two different cars in one. My Civic was economically up to 4000rpm then it became a different car. This would be a reason for my manifold choice.

I do agree with what you're saying though. I think the main difference you will achieve is improved throttle response.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree then :).

I quite like the power being at the higher end of the RPM range. It gives you two different cars in one. My Civic was economically up to 4000rpm then it became a different car. This would be a reason for my manifold choice.

I do agree with what you're saying though. I think the main difference you will achieve is improved throttle response.

I think we are probably agreeing on the effect different manifolds have, but I am looking at the overall performanace of the car. Yes, there will be an increase in BHP at the top of the range helping the engine to rev higher and making top end acceleration quicker (for a short rev range). However, the car will take longer to get up the the RPM where the 4:1 manifold begins to work. If you want the car to accelerate the fastest you need power over the whole usable range, which is what I believe the 4:2:1 configuration gives you.

There is the small matter, or course, of matching the cams, timing, etc to the manifold, but that is a whole new, large, kettle of fish :)
 
There is the small matter, or course, of matching the cams, timing, etc to the manifold, but that is a whole new, large, kettle of fish :)

Just for the record and not to confuse matters... You don't have to do this if you're just improving the exhaust system.

But if you're going crazy then why not throw in some big bore throttle bodies as well.
 
i'm agree with both of u guys opinion...but the main focus is i'm looking for better acceleration. currently i'm using 4-2-1 the acceleration is just nice but i lost in the low torque power. now is time for me to try the 4-1 setup... :)
 
Factory setups are usually quite good. The main ingredient in a cold air intake is cold air. Just make sure the filter does not suck in warm air and it will perform fine.

to be honest with u when i'm changing to a new routed, i feel the difference in engine responds and the rpm raise up very fast...and the most best things is...the sound of the air sucking into the throttle body...:amuse:
 
to be honest with u when i'm changing to a new routed, i feel the difference in engine responds and the rpm raise up very fast...and the most best things is...the sound of the air sucking into the throttle body...:amuse:

From the cars I've had changing the intake would be pointless. I might give it a go on the Beemer though.

Have you thought about getting big bore throttle bodies (aka BBTBs)?
 
From the cars I've had changing the intake would be pointless. I might give it a go on the Beemer though.

Have you thought about getting big bore throttle bodies (aka BBTBs)?

i've thought about that but there's no performance part produces the bbtb for gen2...so far that i concern.

ur beemer is single vanos or double vanos?
 

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