Golf TDI 1.9 Sport (105bhp)

DG87TDI

New member
Points
21
Location
Edinburgh
Car
Golf TDI 1.9
Hi guys, I am new here and new to tuning cars in general! I am still learning to apologies if my questions are noobish.

Basically I am looking to upgrade the car. From what I no diesel's are good at producing high amounts of torque which kicks in early. I am looking to maximise this - I am not so fussed about top speed and bhp (i no this goes hand in hand with torque though) but more about getting that quick pull.

As far as I am aware on the stock engine the maximal sort of upgrade I can get with a remap alone without wearing out of the car is about 240n.m. of torque and around 130bhp. However I would like to push the torque output to 300+

Basically I am looking for information on what sort of upgrades I will need to look at to sustain, achieve or increase this sort of power e.g. intercooler, new clutch etc. What brands provide good equipment etc... info on turbo upgrades etc.

Even just a pointer in the right direction and i will look into it myself. Thanks for any help.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Zwaf

Road Burner
Points
92
Location
Croatia
Car
Seat Ibiza 1,9TDI
I know a tuner who made 175 hp out of such engine. He saiz it was under owner's request and he advices nobody to tune so far full stock car because everything is on max - turbo and injectors and injecting time etc. (I am no tuner expert so don't bash on me if I write some inacurate term)
I guess remaping to 130 hp is somewhat conservative.

Almost forget, he claims that one year after remap owner still drives that car without issues. If it is so, I guess the owner is very thoughtfull about heating and cooling the engine and turbo.

Some often recomended route would be remap and suspension of your choise, but if you want more many people suggest to install biger turbo, FMIC, injectors/nozzles, clutch, remap.

If you wanna whole enchilada sky is the limit - even biger turbo, race nozzles, even better clutch, forged rods and pistons, maybe boring the block for 2,0TDI pistons, race camshaft, big brake kit, coilovers with adjustments etc etc.

When you get familiar with possibilities and make informed decision I am sure more experienced members will chime in with more concrete sugestions and answers.

Untill then, try to look around topics here if you can find something that is interesting to you at this moment.
 

DG87TDI

New member
Points
21
Location
Edinburgh
Car
Golf TDI 1.9
Yeah there is no way I would out put that sort of power on stock alone engine alone! The guy at the garage I have briefly spoke to said he will only push cars to a certain level as he doesn't them breaking down after 6months and damaging his reputation. I think that's why he stuck with around a 30bhp gain and still run relatively safely.

Could you point me in the direction of turbo's that would be compatible with the golf tdi mk4, I guess this would be a good starting point. From there I can work out what else will need to be upgraded to allow for it cost etc. Thanks for the help :).
 

HDi fun

TC ModFather
Points
637
Location
Buckinghamshire UK
Car
Passat 2.0 TDi
Your engine should go quite happily to 160+ bhp. You'll probably struggle for a steady 300lbft but what you will get with a good remap is a much flatter (and fatter) torque curve. This simple flattening of the torque delivery makes astounding differences to the way the car drives.

Additionally, a good tuner will possibly be able to offer short term overboost, so you might be allowed to have 300lbft for say twenty seconds or so of full pedal application.

Have a look at: http://www.celtictuning.co.uk.

All their figures are in lbft. 300lbft is slightly over 400Nm for comparison.

What year is your car?
 
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Zwaf

Road Burner
Points
92
Location
Croatia
Car
Seat Ibiza 1,9TDI
Yeah there is no way I would out put that sort of power on stock alone engine alone! The guy at the garage I have briefly spoke to said he will only push cars to a certain level as he doesn't them breaking down after 6months and damaging his reputation. I think that's why he stuck with around a 30bhp gain and still run relatively safely.

Could you point me in the direction of turbo's that would be compatible with the golf tdi mk4, I guess this would be a good starting point. From there I can work out what else will need to be upgraded to allow for it cost etc. Thanks for the help :).


That is why i explained how "my" tuner saiz it is not recomendable. But gives you a insight for what is capable when all is maxed out.
About turbos, Garret 1749VB (not sufix V and not VA!) is from PD150. I don't know is it plug and play for your engine.
For biger numbers people use hybrid 17/22. In UK you have at least two vendors which making hybrids.
For even biger numbers people use gt2052v, gt2260 and likes.
In last couple of years seems like many apreciate newer generation of GTB turbos - GTB1756vk, GTB2056vk or GTB2260vk. (maybe i missed some of numbers but you can verify them easily with "google".
Some even report good flow with Vauxhall/Saab turbo out of 2,2 liter DTI engines - GT18v aka GT1852V.
All of them, except 1749vb and hybrids need heavy conversions - custom manifolds, reclocking, and in case of GTB series even changing the way the ECU manage VNT. They have electronic actuation and need to be translated for vacuum actuator.
So, I think 1749VB should be cost efective upgrade, altough not cheap yet.

Of course, everything I say should be taken with caution! Ask some more people and/or wait for someonehere to agree or disagree with what i have writen.
 
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HDi fun

TC ModFather
Points
637
Location
Buckinghamshire UK
Car
Passat 2.0 TDi
Thanks turbonutter. @HDi... the car is 2006 with 60,000 miles (if that is relevant).

I just wanted to determine the exact model. 60,000 miles also is fine, no cause for concern at all.

The figures are supplied are based upon Celtic Tuning's figures anyway and that's pretty much what you'll see from your car. The PD engines will tune 'harder' but 270 is lbft will make a significant change to the car's acceleration.

I had a 406 2.2 HDi remapped. It delivered nearly 320lbft and went extremely well. Consider that your Golf is significantly lighter than a 406 you should see some very impressive performance gains with a remap alone.
 

DG87TDI

New member
Points
21
Location
Edinburgh
Car
Golf TDI 1.9
Thanks Zwaf.. lot of info there for me to take in. Good starting point for me to look into turbo's many thanks!

@HDi... how much improvement do think that increase in torque/bhp would make to my 0 - 60 time??
 

HDi fun

TC ModFather
Points
637
Location
Buckinghamshire UK
Car
Passat 2.0 TDi
That's very hard to determine to be honest. It's something to which I don't pay much attention. My 406 was booked listed at 9.6 and a very unscientific test saw sub eight seconds without smoking tyres and clutches and without driving through to the limiter. More impressive was 50-70 in sub four seconds in FOURTH gear. 30-50 under three seconds in THIRD.

Trust me you'll notice the difference in acceleration far far more than you think you will. You'll also find the engine more refined after a remap.
 

DG87TDI

New member
Points
21
Location
Edinburgh
Car
Golf TDI 1.9
The 30 - 50 time sounds amazing! That is probably were I am looking for the most power boost to be honest. Think I will defo go for the remap at least.
 

HDi fun

TC ModFather
Points
637
Location
Buckinghamshire UK
Car
Passat 2.0 TDi
The 30 - 50 time sounds amazing! That is probably were I am looking for the most power boost to be honest. Think I will defo go for the remap at least.

You won't be disappointed, of that I can assure you. I found the overtaking prowess to be stunning with all the extra torque. I'm using a BMW 528i SE at the moment, which is a 2.8 litre 24 valve straight six petrol model and it's spineless in comparison to the 406.

If you do choose to commit to subsequent mechanical mods you will have to have the ECU code changed again to take advantage of the mechanical upgrades. Many operators will do subsequent remaps for a lower fee than the first remap.

One caveat here: avoid tuning boxes totally.
 

Zwaf

Road Burner
Points
92
Location
Croatia
Car
Seat Ibiza 1,9TDI
Thanks Zwaf.. lot of info there for me to take in. Good starting point for me to look into turbo's many thanks!


Don't thank me! Thank to HDI fun instead! Really!
I tryed to answer to your question, but HDI fun is friendly advising you to try just remap first. You could be very pleased and save a lot of money for mods you maybe don't wanna in first place.

Things I listed I haven't done myself. I know of them because I explore that route just like you do. And trust me it is not polite to your account. Once you bite the bullet one mode require another if you wanna maintain drivebility and keep your car reliable.

Read again what HDI wrote and reread this sentence in my first post:
"Some often recomended route would be remap and suspension of your choise.".

Because of hastle and expense take the next step only if you are sure you wanted or need it. :)
 
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pgarner

TC ModFather
Points
417
Location
Lockerbie, SW Scotland
Car
Octy smoke machine
160 from the 105 is a hell of a optimistic, some of CT claims are hell of a higher than more specialist tuners

130-140 max, you can alway go down the route of swapping the turbo and injectors.
both thwe 130 and 150 (160 in some model) versions of the 1.9 will give over 300ftlb after remap
 

jarrus

Pro Tuner
Points
337
Location
West Midlands, UK
Car
Suzuki Swift Sport
the limiting factor on the 105 bhp engines are the injectors and intercooler and turbo but the block and head is exactly the same, best hunt around for for pd130/150 parts for making more power, 300bhp 400lbft is possible using the gt2260, the are found on BMW 330d's from 2003 onwards
 

Zwaf

Road Burner
Points
92
Location
Croatia
Car
Seat Ibiza 1,9TDI
Block, head and cams are the same in all 1,9 TDI (at lest as far as I know). PD130/150 got biger injectors then PD105.
PD150 got GT1749VB turbine. PD130 and PD150 got the same rods, but pd150 got different pistons - different ring position so got smaller compression ratio.

About optimistic numbers look for SMChiptuning on Youtube. There you can find some TDI videos on rollers and during street race. That guy who runs SMChiptuning company got proves for 300+ BHP out of 1,9TDI - 13 sec on 402 meters.

More then half relly cars, hill climbers and circuit runners from Bosnia And Hertzegovina, Croatia and Serbia use his services when comes to maping out of scratch for highly moded race cars.

That Golf with 1,9 liter and stock 105 BHP is remaped upon request. Owner just whant to see what is possible. Owner of SMChiptuning highlighted that this is not recomendable, but he also admites he was suprised aswell! Everything on that car is maxed out - injecting durations, turbine pressures, EGT, EMP... I think only mod was straight out exhaust.


Back on topic,
If 130-140 BHP out of safe remap is not enough, best hunt is PD130/150 parts - turbo and injectors. Turbo in Pd150 is biger (better) but costs more, and injectors are same on PD130/150. Untill 170bhp it is not necessery to install FMIC, but I guess it wont hurt as long as you dont use something to big and in that way induce turbo lag.
GT2260v turbine reportedly gives high BHP figures, but at cost of low rev response.
GT1749VB is godd for about 190BHP.
Hybrid 17/22 is good for about 200-210BHP.
GTB1756vk is good for 220+ BHP and spools like stock, but require pretty much moding to suit - as all GTB turbos does!
GTB2056vk spools about 100 revs later but it is good for real big numbers.
I never got chance to drive car which is moded that way so my words are just an echo of other people and my only intention is to give you something to explore yourself.


P.S. I am in no way connected with that company. Even got my remap done in different place. (because in that time I did not even hear for SMchiptuning, altough he is much closer to me then then company where i got my remap done)
 

PedroS

Torque Junkie
Points
22
Location
UK Swindon
Car
G. Scenic 2.0 dci
i would get the turbo reconditioned/hybrid and remap.... that should be more then enough for what you looking for... once again HDI fun is spot on on the recomendations... lol
 

PedroS

Torque Junkie
Points
22
Location
UK Swindon
Car
G. Scenic 2.0 dci
no point hyrbidising that turbo when you can get a more powerful one of the later models
far from being an expert on vw tdi's but the later models are straight swap/bolt on ?
how much it would cost for a new or used one? at least a hybrid won't cost a leg and a arm, you know what you getting/doing , it's a straight swap and as far as i understood from DG87TDI it will be more than enough for +300n.m. with a remap only.
 

pgarner

TC ModFather
Points
417
Location
Lockerbie, SW Scotland
Car
Octy smoke machine
not actually sure, is the 105 a PD engine ? if it is then apart from a few pipes it will be bolt on,
if youve a decent scrappy around you then shouldnt be too hard to get hold of a decent one for less than what it would cost to hybridise one.
300nm, remap on the 130/150 engines will give you over 300ftlb never mind nm with a remap
 

PedroS

Torque Junkie
Points
22
Location
UK Swindon
Car
G. Scenic 2.0 dci
i can get your turbo serviced and "custom" hibridised for £550 p&p included (in portugal).
how much would it cost a similar service in england ?
simply put it will be a new turbo for little money and up to your specs... with the advantege of no mods needed to bolt in.
i dont really trust scrapp yards when it comes to tuning....
 

pgarner

TC ModFather
Points
417
Location
Lockerbie, SW Scotland
Car
Octy smoke machine
thats why i said decent scrappy where you can pull it yourself, bount to find a decent one.

i looked at getting mines done on the petrol and it was somewhere around 700 on an exchange. that was fitting the internals from the RS6.
 

PedroS

Torque Junkie
Points
22
Location
UK Swindon
Car
G. Scenic 2.0 dci
700 is not a bad price ! (i think)
about the scrappy i only talk from my experience back in my country.... sometimes it can get VERY expensive and not very good/reliable option... but if you say here in england you can get decent stuff from a scrappy ,hey why not, i will think about it next time i need something :)
 

DG87TDI

New member
Points
21
Location
Edinburgh
Car
Golf TDI 1.9
Hello again guys, have done a little bit research (and saving) while I have had time to. Was just wondering what you guys think of this plan and also the quality of the turbo's.

Essentially I think the first thing I will upgrade is a higher performance turbo but keep the mapping on it relatively low, maybe 140bhp - something a standard remap alone could produce. Keep it at this until I can upgrade this rest of the car to avoid excessive wear on it. When I upgrade the rest of the car I can remap it again at a higher output.

The Turbo's I was looking at were the following:


(Removed URL links as per our T&C's)
Sorry buddy but Members with less than 10 posts are not allowed to post up any URL links or photos, this helps to deter the spammers.
T9 man
Moderator.


I checked the engine code under the engine hood, BXE so I no they will fit but do any of you guys no much about this company? The quality of the turbo's and are they priced well would you say??
 

jarrus

Pro Tuner
Points
337
Location
West Midlands, UK
Car
Suzuki Swift Sport
I wouldn't bother mate, just a remap will see 160 hp safely so just go with that and just make sure that you look after your motor and it's fine.
 

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