Differences in remaps from different companies.

J

Jakeymd

The Torque Meister
Points
102
Location
Ashbourne
Car
Ford Focus 2.0 TDCi
I've been looking at getting my car remapped for a while now.

I have a 2.0 tdci engine that produces 134bhp and 236lbft as standard.

My main consideration was with celtic tuning, which tell me i can get 186bhp and 321lbft.

Then I looked at JFA, they tell me i can get 164bhp and 280lbft. The improvement are half that of the celtic claims.

So what's going on?? Are Celtic being optimistic in their claims? Do JFA provide better maps for the longevity of the engine? Or are they just not able to get as much power out of the engine??

My understanding is that Celtic write their own maps whereas JFA use Viezu (or something like that) maps.

Anyone care to help?
 
Some expert could help you just in case he can see maping blocks in computer. A lot of things mapers change while they increasing power and torque.
Safe map should consider temperatures in engine and turbo, preassure in cilinders and timing/quantity of fuel.
Every engine have their limits and safe map would be inside that limits.
Without seeing software we can only guess is it good or bad for longevity. Other thing you can do is try to find someone with either map and have a chat about how long he got remaped and does he/she had any issues caused with remaping by "XY maptuning".


P.S. I am not the guy who can tell anything specific about remaping, egsact pressures, timings, quantity of fuel etc. Just trying to think logically.
 
Is one a generic static map and the other a rolling road live map?

The only way to get the best map possible is by running the car underload and 'tweaking' the map live. That way that particular engine and any modifications carried out can be tuned for optimum results or to dial out any poor areas seen on the graph.
 
Ignore the PEAK power figures quoted. You need really to look at the whole power band. In a performance car you need the power to come up over a wide RPM band rather than having a major spike two thirds of the way in.

All quoted figures are generally optimistic and it is not unheard of that wild claims are made by some remapping companies, although this is not a tactic I would expect of the companies you've quoted.

You also need to think about fuel economy, reliability and what sort of conditions the car will be used in.
 
I have noticed celtic's claims are always higher. They may simply turn the boost up more. As Wayne says as well, look at the whole band.

Also important, and especially on a diesel, is the peak torque figures. Your Focus I think has a gearbox rated to 400Nm of torque, about 300lbft. The celtic remap is way above that and will wear your clutch out quickly, so unless you are going to uprate it you are better off with the JFA map.

I could have remapped my car to well over 300lbft but I kept it under that for the clutch. 170bhp and 290lbft is more than enough for my crappy Bora chassis.
 
I main driving is usually less than 10 miles, I'm wary that a map isn't best for this sort of driving. my daily commute is only 1 1/2 miles but the temp gAuge just begins to move at this point. so I was thinking a switchable map would be best. both companies do these.
id rather have a flat torque curve than a huge peak. or maybe in time a map for both.
also can maps be changed during driving??
 
It is quite possible for one companies map to be much better than another in fact they often are.

If the software is more powerful the map will have much more adjustment which will give much better results ( providing it is done propery)
For example 16 bit system will have four times the adjustment as it will have four times as many "mapping squares".
This will however usually make it more expensive and take longer to set up.

You need a fairly decent ecu to be able to switch maps and there will be no point with a near stock engine unless you are planning to run racing fuel .
 
The companies can map as savagely as they choose. In the case of the Ford 2.0 TDCi engine there's an overboost facility which allows extra torque (and therefore extra power) for short bursts of full pedal operation. I imagine that Celticm ay be quoting the overboosted figure (which is limited to about twenty seconds or so) rather than the continous figure.

My experience of Celtic's work was very good. They turned my 406 2.2 HDi into a seriously accelerative car.
 
Jakeymd said:
I've been looking at getting my car remapped for a while now.

I have a 2.0 tdci engine that produces 134bhp and 236lbft as standard.

My main consideration was with celtic tuning, which tell me i can get 186bhp and 321lbft.

Then I looked at JFA, they tell me i can get 164bhp and 280lbft. The improvement are half that of the celtic claims.

So what's going on?? Are Celtic being optimistic in their claims? Do JFA provide better maps for the longevity of the engine? Or are they just not able to get as much power out of the engine??

My understanding is that Celtic write their own maps whereas JFA use Viezu (or something like that) maps.

Anyone care to help?
Click to expand...

Hi,

All of our remapping is custom written specific to each individual car. I myself have worked for a couple of rem napping companies and had many problems with high quoted peak figures, clutch problems etc. ( Not commenting against any tuning company in particular)

We will always remap safe and reliable, and remember its not always about peak power. Its about how long we make the peak power last, ensuring the power delivery is smooth and driveable.

For example this is a case study of some of our work 2011:

After very considerable dyno time and tuning development, we are very pleased to confirm the results of the Aston Martin ECU remapping. A 50% reduction on Co2 output, testing and inline with UK MOT regulations.
And we have achieved this on the Aston Martin Vantage whilst still confidently delivering and additional 22-25bhp and 30blft of torque. In fact the peak bhp rise is closer to 50bhp, and comes in perfectly as the AMV8 really comes alive 4800rpm.
Nobody in the world is offering this level of custom tuning for the Aston Martin – and through our worldwide dealer network, we can tune your Aston Martin where ever you are.

I hope this is of some help :bigsmile:
 
Not every car will tune the same either, it is possible that Celtic have had 1 car get those figures, they use that figure as it is impressive but then they have the problem of trying to get every car they tune to that specification as that is what the customer is expecting, a mistake IMO by Celtic to claim that they can get that from every car.

I have used ChippedUK in the past and got a very respectable figure from a Vectra 150 (195bhp & 341 lb/ft) unfortunately since then I have heard nothing but bad things from other people that have used that same person (Not sure if he works for this company anymore) so have decided to go to another person.

DTUK can get 216 bhp from a 150 Astra with a panel filter only (I have seen this personally on Dreamscience's RR) but my car only got to 190, same box different car :(.

Companies like Regal and MPG (For Vx cars) use generic maps from EDS in Germany whilst the others (normally cheaper too) take your standard map and make tweaks to that.

From experience I would say take the figure that is lowest and expect that, that way you wont be dissapointed, anything else is a bonus in my eyes then :)
 
Last edited:
I have had quite a few different maps done for me by various people. Some have been blown in maps and the others have been live mapping done on a rolling road (the best way imo) Currently running a MapTun custom map and so far very pleased with it.
I will however be seeking another map by another company in the not too distant future, just too see what more I can gain. Good tuning people I have been told can save your previous map so that if you do not like the new one, then you can go back to your original map without any issues.
I have personally used Viezu in Bromsgrove and I think they are very good.
 
thanks guys :) so Mr. JFA man, whose real name I can't remember, what is the best price you could do for me? I have a 2005 focus 2.0 tdci.
 
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