d turbo.......turbo upgrade

Ramage1

Full member
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21
Location
scotland,edinburgh
Car
306 1.9 d turbo s
hi guys,new to here i have a 1.9 d turbo s and wondered if i could put what would essentially a bigger turbo in it to give it more oooomph:blink1:
 
Greetings and Welcome to our TorqueCars Forum my Friend! :)

I am unable to help you with your question directly, but hopefully somebody can point you in the right direction for the knowledge that you seek!

Good luck! :)
 
Welcome to TorqueCars Buddy!

Unfortunetly, swapping turbo's isn't a straight forward job. best bet would be hybrid turbo's, which often comes in the mix of a Subaru turbo ( TD04 ) and a Saab turbo ( Garrett T25 ) Best thing for the D turbo would be a stage 1 tune. This will see you increase max fuelling and boost to create quite a bump in power. Leave the turbo swap untill you want to get into the 150 - 160 hp range. on top of that you will need forged internals, as the internal compression is massive when running these cars with high boost. Also you will need to fit a boost gauge to the car, if you over tune the boost then your car will explode. Ideally, the car should be running around 12 psi stock. apon tuning, you want to see around 17 psi on stock internals.

If your interested in the Stage 1 go to youtube and search D turbo stage 1 tune. It's your best bet, instead of me trying to explain how to do it. ;)
 
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cheers guys i have a feeling hopefully its been tuned properly a little before because it has a turbo gauge inside the car already and hitting just about max revs its showing 17psi which iv read up on and seems pritty good,looked into getting it chiped but quickly found out that wasnt possible coz it doesent have a ecu am i riight ?
 
Yeah your correct. All mechanically timed bud, not an ECU in sight! Minus the airbag.
If it is boosting at 17psi, the previous owner has performed the stage 1 already. If you can still get into contact with him, ask him. Next step would be to find a Bosch VE pump. Which is far more stable and is much more tunable.
 
ok will do i thin kthe guy that did the stage 1 was the guy before the guy that sold it to me unfortunatly but ill have a look at the pump you suggested,cheers again :blink1:
 
out of curiosity what exactly will the pump help with ?


the current pump which is more then likely a lucus fuel pump, is very... Crap. Basically. It hasn't got stronger internals, you can only increase fuelling a little bit. With a bosch pump, it's complete opposite, it's very tunable, very very strong and very relaible. Plus if you do bolt on a larger turbo, it will help with the fuel delivery better. More fuel more power basically.

One of our fellow members, Jarrus, is currently doing a project on a D turbo 306. Head to the WIP/ Projects page and look up ' Old lady finally gets what she deserves. Check his thread out. I am sure it will help.
 
In all honestly... Get the supension sorted first mate. Some nice coilovers will see it nicely, new wishbone arms and try to fit some gti6 brakes and calipers. Much better then the pants brakes that come stock.
 
its already been lowered but its just the springs unfortunatly my old 206 was on coilovers and handled like a go kart was brilliant :lol:,so gt6 brakes coilovers and a new pump,better get saving eh :toung:,cheers again mate
 
haha.. Save away my friend. Best place to look would be Ebay for the pump. If you can try to get a low milage one. One more thing... Decat exhaust system! ;)
 
I should add my 2p

There are 4 oem turbos and 2 oem injector pumps,
4 turbos are:
Garrett T2
Garrett GT15
KKK K14
KKK K03

Injector Pumps are:
Lucas CAV
Bosch VE

Lucas pumps and K14 turbos are the most common and in your case I would bet that is what you have,

Hybrid is an option, the cartridge and compressor cover from a KKK K04 from a 1.8T VAG engine can be transplated into the K14 turbine housing with a little work, oil lines will need to be changed though as they aren't a straight fit,
There are other home brew hybrid options I'm sure but I'm yet to explore them,
Other is to buy a hybrid, you're looking at £500-700 from Turbo Dynamics for there stage 1 or stage 2 repectively, expensive yes, but they are plug and play with no messing.
Other than that you can retro fit other turbos, Garrett T25's and Mitsubishi TD04l-13g's are popular but I would personally recommend a Garrett GT2056 as the compressor compliments the engine rather well, just be sure to buy a wastegated version rather than a VNT/VGT to which there are many out there, GT2056's in wastegated form can be had from certain Iveco vans and also from the 2.7 diesel Ssanyong engine.

As for a present boost limit... these engine ae strong but not indestructable (not like Mercedes OM60x engines) boost limit realistly is about 30 psi (~2 bar) with a standard weight car and more if you've stripped it and less if you've loaded with ICE it's all to do with engine load.

150 hp is possible from a standard turbo if you run a Bosch VE with upgraded internals but you'll be producing loads of black smoke and the police won't be very happy with your (niether will MOT man)

Intercooler upgrade is a must, so is an exhaust upgrade and water/meths and cam upgrades are optional but worth while,

There is still loads I haven't mentioned... but you can look over my project thread in the mean time, it will be updated so but there is still a fair bit to read in the mean time...

Regards

Brett
 
Suspension.... something to metion...

Don't go for cheap coilovers, there rubbish, stay with the decent stuff...
Koni, SPAX, GAZ, Bilstein, Eibach, KW,

I use Koni yellow dampers and lowering springs, they are good for the money but I will be looking to upgrade again in the future, also GTI6 rear beam is worth while as are GTi6 front brakes you'll need 15" wheels or bigger, don't use crappy tyres, also rear torsion bar and rear ARB upgrades are worth looking into and over looked by many and is a major cause of understeer in these, people go stiffer on the front and leave the back on standard TB's and this difference in the springing rates will cause the car to understeer,
 
There is a lot I missed then! If it's okay, I will refer to a user on the TDOCUK.co.uk forum. He wrote up a guide using lucus pump and what ever turbo comes on a 1998 D turbo, he said he had it around 150 mark. I may be mis informed, if I can find it I'll post it here. but he had very little of boost smoke thanks to this method. What do you make of it Jarrus?

http://www.tdocuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=6900

I think he is doing the opposite of what the common 'Stage 1' is and how its performed.
 
this is th best method of tuning the lucas pump, used that method on a guys car on here and the results were brilliant,

130bhp and 200lbft was what jp got on 21 psi of boost, which a health gain considering the standard engine has 90bhp and 145lbft
 
Huge gain mate! Would it be advisable to run a FMIC before dialling the boost to that pressure? Or would stock IC be enough? Admittedly, the stock IC sucks even at low boost.
 
cheers guys amazing helping hands,im not sure if ill get everything as im scared that i do all this then the engine packs in as its already done 137 thou!! i know they can last forever but im not sure how well looked after it was before me
 
change your oil regular, 5w40 fully synthetic is recommended by your truely every 6 months or 6k miles which ever comes first 137k is still nothing.... ive seen track day dturbos with 200 hp on 120k mile engines (not rebuilt) so tune away my friend
 
wow,yeah i was gonna keep doing a regular change anyway just to keep her sweet,suppose if you say its nothing ill have to belive you and shove every well worth while penny into it :)
 
you dont have to spend loads of money on these to get it make some nice power and torque and same with the suspension, just a few choice mods will go a long way my friend
 
cheers mate,on another small note i was gonna put a dump valve in it just for show plus i heard it preserves the turbo,wondering if you know how difficult they are to fit ?
 
not sure on how the dump valve will preserve the turbo ? they are there to get rid of excess pressure when the butterfly plate in the throttle body closes. as diesel generally dont have throttles in the same way as petrols, theyre as some "throttles" in some engines but generally not, then there is no increase in pressure for the dump valve to work with.

how hard to fit, find a boost pipe and plumb it in using a vac line to operate it
 
not sure on how the dump valve will preserve the turbo ? they are there to get rid of excess pressure when the butterfly plate in the throttle body closes. as diesel generally dont have throttles in the same way as petrols, theyre as some "throttles" in some engines but generally not, then there is no increase in pressure for the dump valve to work with.

how hard to fit, find a boost pipe and plumb it in using a vac line to operate it

You can fit a dump valve... but it's about as useful as a chocolate teapot. As I understand, the dump valve expels the air flowing through the inlet manifold, which means, you'll have to wait for air to refill, meaning loose of power.
 
Yeah your correct. All mechanically timed bud, not an ECU in sight! Minus the airbag.
If it is boosting at 17psi, the previous owner has performed the stage 1 already. If you can still get into contact with him, ask him. Next step would be to find a Bosch VE pump. Which is far more stable and is much more tunable.

Can I but in and ask If you know much about the ACdelco fuel pump,
I bought 1 ready to put in my car for future necesity. It is a genuine pump for the VS commodore but they claim it has better flow rate than the "genuine,genuine". (if that makes sense) Basically it looks Identical to the genuine and they call it an upgrade performance pump!!!
Couldn't find any flow rates or KPA specs.
(It would bean upgrade if your old one is stuffed:lol:
 
Can I but in and ask If you know much about the ACdelco fuel pump,
I bought 1 ready to put in my car for future necesity. It is a genuine pump for the VS commodore but they claim it has better flow rate than the "genuine,genuine". (if that makes sense) Basically it looks Identical to the genuine and they call it an upgrade performance pump!!!
Couldn't find any flow rates or KPA specs.
(It would bean upgrade if your old one is stuffed:lol:

I don't mate, sorry. Where did you get it from? Who ever provided it must have some specs or facts about it?
 
Yeh, I'll look into that. Will try harder to find some specs on the pump.
I'm thinking about putting a Modified turbo on this car. (VS commodore/ EcoTec 3.8l V6)
The turbo is a Mitsubishi TC06 but instead of the genuine 30/50 impeller it ha 50/70.
Plus enlarged intake and output. Still only in the idea's stage. To do it right I'd be better off with 2 turbo's. I was thinking to put it in down further near the Ypiece so as to put the 2 extractors through the 1 turbo. I realize it would have major lag. Then I thought, what if I had an electric turbo that would act as a primary boost before the TC06 hits it's boost level. My main goal is to have fun with it and at a minimal cost.
I can do most of the installing and manufacturing myself.
 
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Sounds good mate. Try creating a seperate thread as there are many other members that will be able to help you with your questions.
 
not sure on how the dump valve will preserve the turbo ? they are there to get rid of excess pressure when the butterfly plate in the throttle body closes. as diesel generally dont have throttles in the same way as petrols, theyre as some "throttles" in some engines but generally not, then there is no increase in pressure for the dump valve to work with.

how hard to fit, find a boost pipe and plumb it in using a vac line to operate it

basically i think it preserves it coz it lets the presure out instead of being trapped and the presure has no where to go if you get me
 
the current pump which is more then likely a lucus fuel pump, is very... Crap. Basically. It hasn't got stronger internals, you can only increase fuelling a little bit. With a bosch pump, it's complete opposite, it's very tunable, very very strong and very relaible. Plus if you do bolt on a larger turbo, it will help with the fuel delivery better. More fuel more power basically.

One of our fellow members, Jarrus, is currently doing a project on a D turbo 306. Head to the WIP/ Projects page and look up ' Old lady finally gets what she deserves. Check his thread out. I am sure it will help.
i beg to differ...i have a lucas pump and i have turned the max fuel a full turn,the boost compensater is standard setting.my kkk turbo acuator is turned all the way in and back 1 turn.i have a stainless steel exhaust with no cat or middle box,just a cobra back box and i am running just over 22psi with only grey smoke:bigsmile: sounds pucka spooling over.
 
Lucas pumps aren't as good as the Bosch one but it's unfair to call them crap....
you can modify the govnor in a similar way to the bosch but that's about it...

lucas pumps do suffer when you use veg oil or bio diesel and yes they do tend to blow seals when really pushed...

When I get change I want to take a Lucas CAV apart and see whats what for myself...
 
i would love to have a drive off one with a bosch set up, cus the set up i have got now is very nippy.i would like to see the comparison off the two aswell side by side.
hey jarrus i am wanting to put a 306 hdi gear box on my car with a fast road clutch...my local merchanic is going to do it for me,just wondering what modifications need doing,any ideas ?
have you ever heard of a POWERFLEX Rear Beam Mount Tensioning Kit ?
was thinking of using this when i get it lowered on the back,serposed to stiffen up the ride.
 
the 1.9 clutch fork will have to be swapped into the hdi box to operate the clutch, the hdi one is completely wrong...

if you use the rear beam tensioning kit then you lose the passive rear wheel steer...
it's up to you really, I can't comment on it being good or bad as I haven't done it myself
a lot of people tend to sway away from it though on a road car as it makes the rear really stiff, not like stiffing the suspension but the bumps really go through the chassis.... so from what other people have told me, for a daily driver...might not be the best... for a toy car then i's worth while but you can even get solid mounts if your hardcore :)

so all said and done... it's up to you...my personal feeling on the subject are that it would be the last thing I upgraded and if I wanted stiffer mounts then I'd just go for the solid group a type or stick with standard mounts...
 

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