Torque Cars

Crx del sol stalling (again)

Discussion in 'CRX Del Sol Owners' started by SQUAREDOZ, 1 December 2013.

  1. SQUAREDOZ

    SQUAREDOZ Full member

    Messages:
    12
    From:
    TOOWOOMBA, AUSTRALIA
    Car:
    HONDA CRX DEL SOL
    Britain, USA Australia - there must be somebody out there who can suggest a reason for intermittent stalling, usually on a fairly hot day and only after stopping after a good run. Runs great on the drive, and idles OK after stopping - then fails without warning when starting to accelerate (usually across a busy intersection) after performing beautifully for weeks. The brute will restart normally if allowed to sit for 5 minutes and may even resume immediately in some instances. While affected, it will fire up but appears to have only one or two cylinders or fuel starvation, then dies again. Fuel pickup, vapour lock, wire fracture, injectors?

    I know that I have posted on this before and even thought I had it beat after replacing the main fuel pump relay, IACV, distrib/coil and plugs and checking lines, fuel pump, TPS etc. 1992 B16A2, Garrett turbo, 750 injectors, etc, blah, blah. What is really frustrating is that it is still not clear whether it is spark or fuel - symptoms are identical. A quick spark check at the plug is ambiguous as it recovers so quickly and heavy traffic makes this difficult. I notice that there is no O2 sensor on the header but feel that this is irrevevant.

    This is a great little car; however, apart from the safety issue and embarrassment, it is sapping my confidence and makes it hard for my wife to enjoy what these machines are all about. I know it is a simple fix......if only I could zero on it. HELP!!!
     
  2. TCJBOLDIE

    TCJBOLDIE Torque King

    Messages:
    4,864
    From:
    Brisbane
    Car:
    JB Starion
    Is it cutting out on all cylinders at once or spluttering as it would be good if it can be traced to the cylinder/s that are cutting out.
    The car if my memory is correct did not come with a turbo so what EMS does it have and have you sent it back to be tested ?
    It may be a heat related and a faulty MAP or temperature sensor could be the culprit.
    Intermittent faults are always difficult to find and eliminate.
     
  3. SQUAREDOZ

    SQUAREDOZ Full member

    Messages:
    12
    From:
    TOOWOOMBA, AUSTRALIA
    Car:
    HONDA CRX DEL SOL
    TCJ, by EMS I guess you mean 'engine management system' or ECM (still coping with the alien speak of newer generation vehicles). I believe it is a standard Honda Civic/CRX OBD1 with a WinFab P30 chip. No chance of sending it anywhere as the Honda shops have no idea. Hopefully, I can pick up the necessaries to allow some real time ECM access to ensure proper settings.

    Power loss is instantaneous, total and early as acceleration commences. Once it occurs, the fault is likely to repeat several times in the same urban (stop/start) environment. If I maintain continuous driving after re-start, performance is normal. About 50% of the time, a normal re-start is possible; however, it often just fires as if on a couple of cylinders, is unresponsive to throttle, dies again and stubbornly refuses to cooperate. Switch off, leave for a short time while trying to ignore driver abuse (or winch around the corner on starter), and it fires up normally. This is pretty embarrassing, especially when RACQ is called, then cancelled again just before the unit arrives. I carry a spare plug to try to identify spark loss......so far, no result! I think I replaced the MAP sensor but will check whatever sensors I can identify and/or get access to.

    Hope this is sufficiently rational and thanks for the feedback. It's nice to know that all Del Sol knowledge does not reside in the USA. Check us out some time if you feel like a drive in the country - address available. *Removed by Super Moderator*
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 2 December 2013
  4. TCJBOLDIE

    TCJBOLDIE Torque King

    Messages:
    4,864
    From:
    Brisbane
    Car:
    JB Starion
    I go thru Twba on the way to the street sprints3 times a year.
    Now it seems to me that it is time to bite the bullet and get a proper aftermarket tuneable computer installed and tuned .
     
  5. SQUAREDOZ

    SQUAREDOZ Full member

    Messages:
    12
    From:
    TOOWOOMBA, AUSTRALIA
    Car:
    HONDA CRX DEL SOL
    TCJ, thanks! Probably good advice but the budget just doesn't extend to $1200+............unless someone out there has a bargain.
     
  6. SQUAREDOZ

    SQUAREDOZ Full member

    Messages:
    12
    From:
    TOOWOOMBA, AUSTRALIA
    Car:
    HONDA CRX DEL SOL
    In case somebody actually returns to these posts, I hope that I can claim a 'fix' on this problem (although I will still carry a spare, refurbished main relay).


    Since the ECM is the brain of these cars and mine clearly was a little psychotic, I opted for a Moates Demon II fitment followed by a professional tune. It's not cheap; but I now have a much smoother little car with 186 HP at the wheels on just 10 lbs boost. More importantly, the AFM (which previously dropped below 10, then off the dyno scale, at just 90kph) is now decently above 12, throughout the range, regardless of throttle application. Overfuelling is clearly a problem with marketed chips (no names - no pack drill). No evidence of the previous stalling issue so far.........fingers crossed!


    The Demon/Neptune combo is great, beautifully made and easily fitted. 'Elegant' is the best description.
    Best wishes to other Del Sol enthusiasts and thanks for the interest.
     
    DelSolBaby likes this.
  7. DelSolBaby

    DelSolBaby Newbie

    Messages:
    2
    From:
    USA - Minneapolis, MN
    Car:
    Honda Del Sol Si
    Wow, thanks for the post. Just this morning I did an internet search and found your post. My Del Sol has the exact same symptoms as yours. It has been happening for a few years now with ever increasing frequency, and since it is my summer car just for "fun," I just haven't been driving it.

    I decided that this month I was going to either get rid of the car, or work on solving the problem. After washing it up, all of the fond memories of the car came back. This was my very first car and I bought it new in '93. This car is my baby, so it would have been very hard to get rid of it. Thanks to your post, I have a likely cause. You may have just saved my car's life. Thanks.

    What do you think the best way to get this fixed is? Is this an easy DIY project? Did you install the new computer board, and then take it to a mechanic to get it tunned?
     
  8. SQUAREDOZ

    SQUAREDOZ Full member

    Messages:
    12
    From:
    TOOWOOMBA, AUSTRALIA
    Car:
    HONDA CRX DEL SOL
    G'day DSB,

    Nice to hear from another afflicted owner. I tried a lot of different internet sites and quizzed many tuning 'experts', but there wasn't much useful response and too much expenditure resulted from pure speculative 'drivel'. I downloaded Crome but, fortunately, followed through on the Demon/Neptune combo. The US$380 turned into approx AUS$500 but was worth every penny. Remember, my car was well-modified so it didn't really mirror the standard config, certain sensors were questionable and some bits had been eliminated for an intended competition mode (not by me).

    Anyway, the hardware fitment is simple (just plug into the mother board) but an aperture for the USB plug needs to be cut into the ECM case. Incidentally, the ECM was already a USDM P30 with certain standard mods already in place. The Neptune is configured for several options and comes with all the necessary bits so I had a few leftovers after checking with the tech support. Although my tuner (Mick at Murphys Toowoomba, for any Aussie subscribers) was not familiar with the software, he adapted easily and produced a very good result which is very docile and tractable down low yet really boogies with some throttle. Way better than the usual chips and would be lethal if combined with race cams. The very occasional stall still occurs and summer may yet be a problem - but it restarts immediately and is much, much better. Right now it's as cold here as Minneapolis. Bottom line - thoroughly recommend this 'fix' for problematic tuning. As for the main/fuel pump relay issue, I can only refer you to the U-tube commentary plus associated articles by some knowledgeable blokes; eg:
    http://techauto.awardspace.com/mainrelay.html
    http: www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayoperation/badmainrelay.html

    Good luck, keep questioning and don't give up,,,,,it's a sweetie!
     
  9. SQUAREDOZ

    SQUAREDOZ Full member

    Messages:
    12
    From:
    TOOWOOMBA, AUSTRALIA
    Car:
    HONDA CRX DEL SOL
    Belated thoughts and thanks. DSB, to answer our specific question(s), I pulled the ECM, inserted the supplied Demon composite board and cut out the USB port (dead easy). The software is supplied in a USB 'stick' for own use or pro tuner. Don't mess about until you and your tuner have separate copies or the program installed. Then you can fiddle. The main relay was cleaned and resoldered by instrument professionals.

    And many thanks to Torque Cars for notifying me whenever the thread resurrects and somebody else might benefit.
     
  10. DelSolBaby

    DelSolBaby Newbie

    Messages:
    2
    From:
    USA - Minneapolis, MN
    Car:
    Honda Del Sol Si
    Very interesting links, I will take a look at the main relay first.

    Oh funny, I thought you just posted that yesterday, 7-5-2014. I had forgotten us Americans write the date differently from the rest of the world.
     
    Last edited: 7 July 2014
  11. T9 man

    T9 man TC Pro Founder Moderator

    Messages:
    20,369
    From:
    London, UK
    Car:
    Saab 9-3SS T9
    Greetings DelSolBaby and a Warm Welcome to our TorqueCars Forum my Friend!

    Good to have you along with us :)
     
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