1.8T has 2 intercoolers would a FMIC be better

obi_waynne

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I didn't realise this but following all the piping round my engine bay, and there is loads I have concluded that the 1.8T has two small intercoolers in each wing.:eek:

Can anyone verify this for sure?

Would a big single FMIC make much difference? Has anyone tried this mod yet?
 
Not sure whether there actually is 2 intercoolers (can't see it tbh). However assuming there are 2, one big FMIC would probably be slightly more beneficial because of better placement moreso than changing from two smaller ones to one large one (I'm assuming that the FMIC is the same size as the two smaller ones together).

A larger surface area and capacity would be better for power full stop up to a point. Too big and the pressure drop would cause extra lag.
 
A fmic is essential if your planning a remap with high boost, if you have a remap without a fmic, then after an hour or so of driving, or minutes on a boiling hot day heat soak would cause it to fall to its original bhp. So the fmic will give you your engines real power throught out the day, not ju8st in the monring or first hour of driving. They give no extra bhp. loads of people have done them, its tricky with out a3's as there isnt one specific, but the turbo revs one on ebay and the forge mk4 golf one fits the a3 the best.

As ill be running like 24psi, ill need a fmic for sure, and will do even more when i gets a hybrid. I can feel the heat soak loads and would be great to get rid of it :)


oh and the a3's have one, the s3 has 2 smic.

With a smic inlet temps get to a high of around 70 degrees on hot days, with a fmic then the person recorded only 35 degrees on a hot day. so on a winters day youll be taking in freezing cold air all day long:):)
 
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well i know the s3 and the cupra r's have 2 intercoolers and with all the testing been done over the years by modders these are quite sufficient for higher boost! and a fmic is a waste of money for them

but as for your waynne i couldnt confirm whether your does or not
 
the k03 and k03s (150-190 bhp) engines only have 1 intercooler. the more powerful (210-240bhp) have the 2 intercoolers - s3, tt 210-225 models, cupra r. easy way of telling if the position of the throttle body - looking into the bay from the front of the car. if the thottle is on the left then your running 1 intercooler if its on the right then youve got 2.

herb is correct, unless your running a hybrid or big turbo the standard setup is fine. doing the s3 mod to the inner wing will help slow down the heat soak. there are hybrid k04 powered 1.8t out there that are still running 1 SMIC, admittedly uprated but not much larger - due to being k03,03s standard - but getting over 300bhp.

problem with a FMIC is that it normally requires hacking up both your bumper and crash bar (A3 does have slightly more room behind the bumper so it doesnt require as much cutting as on the other models - leon, golf, bora, octavia) as these werent designed to have one in the 1st place. youve also got the problem of the extended pipe run - causes more lag due to the extra space that needs to be pressurised or the hot pipe running over the top of the engine bay - holding the temp higher for longer meaning the intercooler isnt as effective

hope that is of some help
 
well i know the s3 and the cupra r's have 2 intercoolers and with all the testing been done over the years by modders these are quite sufficient for higher boost! and a fmic is a waste of money for them

but as for your waynne i couldnt confirm whether your does or not

yer for an hour or so, you would notice the difference by having an intercooler on, its physics. Intercooler away from hot stuff, causing little heat soak, on 180bhp car with inlet temps of 70 degrees, the car would be running at 160bhp or less. Theres a graph somewhere. I dont see how inlet temps of 70 degrees is good. Id much rather have 35 maximum degrees. The smic do there job at around 70% effiency, a fmic would give 95%
;)
An intercooler does nothing performance gains what so ever just gives maximum gains constantly, so if a 1.8 n/a comes along and youve been driving for an hour on a hot day, your not going to zoom past it. Ill tell you what a waste of money for a k03 k03s and even a k04 , a " sports exhaust"

I can confirm, A3 has one smic. Why wouldnt A3 owners just buy a s3 fmic, becuase the pipeworks completely different, becuase the s3 has 2 intercoolers plumbed in.

And if im running highboost on a k03s at 24 psi, its going to get very hot indeed.
 
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y Ill tell you what a waste of money for a k03 k03s and even a k04 , a " sports exhaust"

got to disagree on that ive had mine on just over a week and notice a difference in throttle response and car feels more torquey lower down. also the turbo seems to spool alot faster. larger downpipe is supposed to be the way to go.

suppose having the intake enlarged helps as well
see the difference in pics
2556258558_cf8008ec55.jpg
 
Yer i know, they probally do release an extra 5bhp and make things a bit more responsive but for the money it costs, full turbo back system, i was quoted £600, theres been a few people on the other forum that had a dyno before and after, with no gains atall, more resposnesive, but no gains what so ever. And for about a grand for a milltech, rather get suspesion.

All the larger this larger that only really makes a big difference in big turbo upgrades or other 300bhp, That turbo i was quoted they said you dont need a turbo back exhaust, the a3 downpipe is restrictive apperently though. At like 1.2 bar, a 2.5 inch hole is plenty big enough to get it out.
 
getting off topic here but
the downpipe is pretty restrictive this was an OEM pipe that had been cut for the k04 flange to be fitted

DSC08048.jpg


hopefully theyre not all like that. i suppose this is where some people see the big increases in gains
 
Lots of bullsh*t and made-up figures being thrown around here.

For a start an FMIC is no more efficient than a SMIC of the same volume and surface area if it's not getting greater air flow.

Heatsoak will still build up at idle; sitting in traffic for example. Then everything i cooled down as you start to move again and air passes through the intercooler and radiator.

A less restrictive exhaust system and decent headwork is just as important as an efficient intercooler for performance and minimising heatsoak. If you can't get the exhaust gases out fast enough the heat energy will build up around the head impaticular. This will also have a negative effect on turbo spool.

Also 24psi seems like far too much on a KO3s to me. There comes a point where you're running beyond a turbos peak efficiency and just increasing inlet temps without actually gaining any power. Be very surprised if it holds that beyond a boost spike.
 
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Ok thats your veiw, but i still believe a fmic is far superior over a side mounted.

22 psi is the safe limit, not like its going to explode if you go over that, just want last as long.
 
Woah MA - subtle as ever! ;) :lol:

Isn't part of the point being that a SMIC is never going to be as big as a FMIC. The front mount allows you to have a bigger surface area.

Heat from the compression of air inside the turbo, is IMHO, still a larger cause of inlet heat gain than any heatsoak will ever be. Especially considering the Audis take cold air from the front wing, away from the engine bay. :D

This has turned out to be a pretty interesting thread. Keep the views and opinions coming, it has certainly given me food for thought.
 
the heat soak is caused by the hot air passing through it. not the heat from around the bay.

problem with fitting a large front mount that is that you need to cut back the crash bar alot - not the best idea when this is all that holds the front together in the main. even with a small one some cutting back is required

the only real issue with the SMIC is the fact that the air can get to it without much problem however it cant get back out as easy. this is why so many ether fit the S3 or TT vent in the arch liner - this allows the air to pass through much easier.
 
the heat soak is caused by the hot air passing through it. not the heat from around the bay.

problem with fitting a large front mount that is that you need to cut back the crash bar alot - not the best idea when this is all that holds the front together in the main. even with a small one some cutting back is required

the only real issue with the SMIC is the fact that the air can get to it without much problem however it cant get back out as easy. this is why so many ether fit the S3 or TT vent in the arch liner - this allows the air to pass through much easier.


The smic themselves will get warm from raditation from within the engine bay. The engine bay is boiling in the audi turbo cars, so if the smic is hot then the air passing through it will get hot, but the cold air coming in does cool it down, but not enough for it to be completly hear soak free, ive heard loads of people on the other forum praising front mounted intercoolers. And yer much more air is going to hit it as its much bigger, and the front grilles are bigger. I can with ease notice heat soak in my car, after a long drive or a boiling hot day. Feels so much more responsive and quicker in the colder mornings.

If youve got a spare £500 going, or £200 depends what one you get, but as someone said earlier, you wants a fmic with both pipes on the same size, to reduce the lag. Not needed for a standard car, but whats the point in gettinhg a remap done and not being able to use the added, all day long. Even on RR they show the intake temps and sometimes get a short of there stated bhp because they had a long drive to the RR and heat soak kicked in.
 
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You can never completely remove heatsoak and unless you use a chargecooler and ice as per drag racers your temps will never be lower than ambient so your car will still be more responsive on a cold morning than a warm afternoon.

I wasn't referring to a "safe" limit for the Ko3s. If you want to run 24psi that's a pointless turbo to do it on. All you need to do is look at the maps for it to know this. You want to hold 24psi get a GT28R or RS and do it properly instead of working a small turbo too hard.
 
If your running the k03s on what mappers do it to a generic then they give torque figures of 230lb, with a custom and running high boost, probally 23, 1 psi more than the unwritten safe zone for the k03s, itll give you 270lb torque, thats a double the amount.

And yer but if the air from the engine gets cooled down more before it goes into the turbo then the car will be more responsive. 40 degrees difference is a lot,
 
I suppose one option is to spray water on the intercooler if heat soak is a bit problem. One of the new Imprezas has this device fitted.
 
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