Torque Cars

saxo vts tuning

Discussion in 'Citroen' started by nealey34345, 14 March 2012.

  1. nealey34345

    nealey34345 New member

    Messages:
    8
    From:
    tipton united kingdom
    Car:
    saxo vts 1.6 16v
    hi i have a saxo vts 1.6 16v with a decat, induction kit and 5 inch backbox and its a bit flat off the bottom, the power comes in at 3500 rpm. Does anyone know if a uprated fuel regulator and gas flowed throttle body wil make much difference and wil it benifit from a remap
     
  2. obi_waynne

    obi_waynne Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    41,292
    From:
    Deal, Kent UK
    Car:
    A3 1.4 TFSI 150 COD
    A 5 inch back box is probably the reason it's flat at the bottom end. A 2 inch bore size is IMO more than sufficient for a 1.6 Saxo engine.

    Dump the big back box, throw away the induction kit and replace with a standard air box and high flow filter and I bet the car will feel much faster and better to drive.
     
  3. nealey34345

    nealey34345 New member

    Messages:
    8
    From:
    tipton united kingdom
    Car:
    saxo vts 1.6 16v
    &lt;br /&gt;<br />
    its not slow at all but its when you floor it fast theres like a flat spot. Ive found out that citroen fitted a lower fuel pressure regulator to comply with european emmisions law and causes a flat spot so am thinking about trying that. They do an uprated 4.0 bar replacment and taking your advice on the exaust
     
    Last edited: 15 March 2012
  4. Charliep

    Charliep Torque Junkie

    Messages:
    125
    From:
    Thurrock, UK
    Car:
    Alfa GTV & 33
    What you call an up-rated fuel pressure regulator will make things only worse. As Waynne stated your exhaust is one part of the problem and possibly your induction is another one. What induction have you fitted?
     
  5. nealey34345

    nealey34345 New member

    Messages:
    8
    From:
    tipton united kingdom
    Car:
    saxo vts 1.6 16v
    i have a pipercross sponge air filter down by the bottom near the bumper
     
  6. nealey34345

    nealey34345 New member

    Messages:
    8
    From:
    tipton united kingdom
    Car:
    saxo vts 1.6 16v
    why will it make things worse i understand tqe exhaust bore is to big but by letting more air in means it needs more fuel or the fuel spray pattern needs adjusting i think a talk to a remap centre will be useful to me i dont want to undo all the mods surely that going backwards.
     
  7. davalav

    davalav Moderator

    Messages:
    3,617
    From:
    Essex, England
    Car:
    Mini Cooper S R56
    Down near the bumper? Is it shielded? Having an open induction sucks in more HOT air then cold. Of course your engine needs cold air, as it carries more oxygen which burns better. Try getting a BMC carbon airbox and fit the induction around that. It's like a form of forced induction and may reduce the flat spot. Try grabbing a 4-2-1 Manifold and getting a half decent cat back exhaust system. I have no idea how much these cats restrict performance on Saxo's.
     
  8. davalav

    davalav Moderator

    Messages:
    3,617
    From:
    Essex, England
    Car:
    Mini Cooper S R56

    Try a Jenvy throttle body conversion.
     
  9. Charliep

    Charliep Torque Junkie

    Messages:
    125
    From:
    Thurrock, UK
    Car:
    Alfa GTV & 33
    There is a reason for it why the fuel pressure is regulated with the relevant pressure for your set-up. If you up the pressure then you loose pressure level stability sending your ECU into hard work mode, which results in constantly changing injection patterns. This in turn will make your car run worse.

    The sponge you are running is crap. It does loose power. The position it is in is not a wrong place to pick up the air,but the piping is evenly important.

    If you came to our rolling road with what you have done and plan to do I would not re-map it! Simply, because this is not tuning. this is throwing things together.
     
  10. BluntyR5GTT

    BluntyR5GTT Guest

    Messages:
    620
    From:
    stoke on trent
    Car:
    R5 GT Turbo
    get a decent bore 2" with 2.5-3" round back box. a decent de cat, and generally give it a good service oils/plugs/leads/filters etc etc.

    id be tempted to bin that induction kit and go for either standard air box with panel filter or an enclosed induction kit eg bmc cda or similar
     
  11. Charliep

    Charliep Torque Junkie

    Messages:
    125
    From:
    Thurrock, UK
    Car:
    Alfa GTV & 33
    The CDA is in no way better than an open twin cone cotton gauze filter. BMC is a waste of money.
     
  12. BluntyR5GTT

    BluntyR5GTT Guest

    Messages:
    620
    From:
    stoke on trent
    Car:
    R5 GT Turbo
    you reckon? ill have to dig out some testing that was done on filters a couple of years ago, all on the same day on the same motor etc, bmc gave the best gains.

    ill have find that file on my computer and post it up as its quite interesting

    now i appreciate that all cars react different to different mods etc, eg my r5gtt really didnt like an enclosed induction kit (pipercross viper) was so much better when replaced with ramair open cone located behind front grille
     
    Last edited: 18 March 2012
  13. Charliep

    Charliep Torque Junkie

    Messages:
    125
    From:
    Thurrock, UK
    Car:
    Alfa GTV & 33
    I have been working for BMC (as a consultant) to make the CDAs work better with appropriate intake modifications. Whatever the results possible, with twin cone filters (other than the BMC ones) we achieved better results. The CDA needs a lot of re-working to bet as good as the best flowing twin cones.

    Apart from this on normally aspirated engines the pipes/hoses between the filter and the throttle body play an important part in performance gains.

    On force induced systems the filter is the most important part. Between the turbo and the filter preferably should be no pipes. However, in most applications a compromise will be necessary due to constraints.
     
  14. BluntyR5GTT

    BluntyR5GTT Guest

    Messages:
    620
    From:
    stoke on trent
    Car:
    R5 GT Turbo
    fair play matey, i was just going off the tests we did a couple of years ago, it actually surprised me.

    defo agree with the forced induction comment, i only run a very short pipe that helps locate behind front grille.

    back onto topic for the fella, how far are you looking at tuning this engine? as if your only going be doing the basic breathing mods and no more than a remap would help bring it all together, wont give massive gains but will help drivability.
    if your thinking of going down the cams and headwork route then hold back on the remap until they are done.
     
  15. aston

    aston The Torque Meister

    Messages:
    1,365
    From:
    South Dorset
    Car:
    VOLVO and VW
    My Primera has a stupidly load/throaty chav back end, Do you think that is why it feels a bit flat?
     
  16. turbonutter69

    turbonutter69 TC ModFather Moderator

    Messages:
    18,967
    From:
    Alone in the dark.
    Car:
    Insignia SRI.
    Have you took the induction pipe off and had a look at the throttle body yet?

     
  17. Nick88

    Nick88 Full member

    Messages:
    13
    From:
    Gt. Yarmouth
    Car:
    R53 Cooper S
    As already said, get rid of the 5 inch backbox!! must sound like a wet fart too!
    Fuel pressure regulator will only make things worse!
    If you are after more low down the a throttle body conversion is your best bet!
    GMC motorsport do a bolt on throttle body kit from atpower! Add this with a set of newman ph3 or cat cams 708 cams and you have a good 170bhp with a decent manifold and exhaust!
     
  18. Nick88

    Nick88 Full member

    Messages:
    13
    From:
    Gt. Yarmouth
    Car:
    R53 Cooper S
    If not wanting throttle bodies!

    The popular route for saxos is a raceland enclosed induction kit with a green filter!
    4-2-1 or 4-1 manifold! i recommend piper! i had 1 on my 106 gti and sounded immense!
    For exahust, a btb exhaust is the ultimate but rare and discontinued or go for a magnex system or piper system!

    Unfortunately for the tu 16v engines they are pretty gutless down low! but makes up for it when on cam though!
     
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