Define a hot hatch

obi_waynne

obi_waynne

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What parameters must a car fit to become a hot hatch?

1) Needs to be a hatchback.

What power/acceleration figures make it a hot hatch or is it down to handling or the overall driver experience.
 
Parameters change all the time.

Not long ago 8 seconds 0-60 was fast for a hot hatch, now most are in the low 6s.

I've always thought a hot hatch should be a souped-up version of the base shopping car, i.e. it should do all the things that version can do, but also be able to whizz round a track like a sports car.

The above criteria would knock out something like the Clio V6, which although I think it is an EPIC car, and hats off to Renault for making something so mental, it's not an everyday car that you and the kids can go to the shops in, and then you can have a blast on a back road in, like a Focus ST, or even a normal ClioSport, is. To me, the Clio V6 is a RWD sports car that just happens to have a hatch body.

Plus, IMO again, it should be FWD only, which would again discount the current Impreza, which although it's a hatch, is awd.
 
Agree with the first bit but not the second. I would see that as you, a 'WTH was that' version of the shopping car used by your auntie. Could be fwd or rwd, afterall the HS Chevette, Talbot Sunbeam Lotus and Ti were hot hatches and were rwd.

200bhp minimum.
Light as possible.
 
2011-Subaru-Impreza-WRX-STI-Hatchback-Rear-Side-View.jpg


Any more questions?
Subaru Impreza WRX STI Hatchback...
 
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waynne said:
Well that's a hatch and it's quite hot! Anyone know how to get 33mpg out of one of these?
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Just keep the engine on idle then cut a hole in the floor stick your feet through and then impersonate Fred Flintstone :bigsmile:
 
SLEEPER said:
Just for a laugh can YUGUY explain why it has to be FWD .

I just cant wait for the explanation.
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It's purely subjective.

Let's not get into one-make forum territory here, where a liking for one car somehow stops any other car being any good.

Just cos I don't class the Impreza as a hot hatch, I still think it is an epic car, although again, I think Scooby purists hate the fact it's become a hatch. Myself, I prefer the saloon Impreza, it made it different from other cars around it.

To me, a hot hatch is all about go-kart handling, a high-revving n/a engine and scrabble from the front wheels.

It has to have fwd because these days the base car that it came from, with the honourable exception of the impreza, will be fwd. Stamford's examples would be hot hatches for their time, as their base cars would have been rwd also.

It has to have n/a because the lazier delivery of a charged engine doesnt fit the hot hatch character, which is foot to the floor, redline, change gear.

But it's just subjective.
 
Yugguy said:
It's purely subjective.

Let's not get into one-make forum territory here, where a liking for one car somehow stops any other car being any good.

Just cos I don't class the Impreza as a hot hatch, I still think it is an epic car, although again, I think Scooby purists hate the fact it's become a hatch. Myself, I prefer the saloon Impreza, it made it different from other cars around it.

To me, a hot hatch is all about go-kart handling, a high-revving n/a engine and scrabble from the front wheels.

It has to have fwd because these days the base car that it came from, with the honourable exception of the impreza, will be fwd. Stamford's examples would be hot hatches for their time, as their base cars would have been rwd also.

It has to have n/a because the lazier delivery of a charged engine doesnt fit the hot hatch character, which is foot to the floor, redline, change gear.

But it's just subjective.
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Cant see where you got one make from any of my posts ?

IMO a hot hatch is a small car so making a subaru ,rover sd1 or anything else a similar size into a five door doesnt make it a hot hatch -

As for it having to be fwd thats nonesnse of course.

Now it is true that at the moment most hot hatrches are fwd because of the current design trend but that doesnt make it exclusively so.
If any one brings out a small rwd (or awd) car with a hatch thats hot what are you going to call it - If you say anything other than a hot hatch you will be a minority of one.

And as for foot to the floof change gear etc - you have ovbviously never driven a turbo .

You are right about one thing it is subjective and your opinion is worth as much as mine ( as long as it is based on facts)
 
Being subjective doesnt make it nonsense.

The BMW 1 series comes as a hatch. Would you describe the 135, or the possible upcoming M version as a hot hatch? I wouldn't, to me it's a smaller luxury car.

Yes, I have driven turbos, petrol and diesel. I've done a lot of miles and driven a lot of cars in my 24 years of driving.

I don't mind being in a minority of one. Gets me the bargains when it comes to car buying.

Lol, when are opinions ever based on facts, especially when it comes to something so emotive as cars?

But to drag the thread back to the subject.

Perhaps the question should really be in two parts.

First, to get down to the nub of it, what is a hot hatch? It's a car that is quick, with a hatch. The End.

The more important question then is, what do you look for in a hot hatch, what defines the hot hatch experience for you?

For me, as I've said, it is small, fwd, and high-revving n/a engine.

I remember reading a review a while back, comparing three or four fast hatches. Cant for the life of me remember the others, but one was the Clio 172. The review went on about how the other cars were swift through the bends and then it said "and snapping at their heels all the time like a rabid terrier, was the Clio.", which perfectly summed up for me what driving it felt like, punchy, raw, bit of scrabble from the front wheels, scream of the engine in the addictive rush to the redline. Exactly what I look for in a hot hatch.
 
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The two crucial bits are hot and hatch and we agree its must be a small car as well.

The 1 series m will certainly be hot so if it is a hatch then its almost there.

Only thing left is size and here where people disagree.
For me since the golf is a hot hatch as long as the BMW is no bigger then its in .............whatever the interior.

What do I look for in a hot hatch ? I dont . No interest in driving one.

Quick off the mark maybe but Id rather drive something that accellerates from 100mph as well.
 
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Everyone says it started with cheep french cars and ford. I'd disagree. To sum up a 'hot hatch' in two words i'd use

Lancia Delta

Symples. Job done. And I agree, the new scoobie is NOT a hot hatch. It is a last ditch effort to keep the impretza name. Now they no longer rally, they have cheeted and put a 2.5L engine in it. And what makes me laugh, is mine is still faster!!!!! hahahahahaha :)
 
bigbadjoe said:
Everyone says it started with cheep french cars and ford. I'd disagree. To sum up a 'hot hatch' in two words i'd use

Lancia Delta

Symples. Job done. And I agree, the new scoobie is NOT a hot hatch. It is a last ditch effort to keep the impretza name. Now they no longer rally, they have cheeted and put a 2.5L engine in it. And what makes me laugh, is mine is still faster!!!!! hahahahahaha :)
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The new Impreza is actually a saloon.;)

Oh yeah what about the brutal Pulsar Gti-r.
 
FWD is just cheaper to make thats why they are FWD, a hot hatch is wot the name sugests its a hatch that goes well and handles well, it does not mater if its turbo n/a FWD or AWD or RWD, its still ahot hatch and that is the definition not my opinion just the definition like u asked for at the start of this post....subaru hatch is a hot hatch, a stock corrolla is just a hatch...
 
stamford said:
Agree with the first bit but not the second. I would see that as you, a 'WTH was that' version of the shopping car used by your auntie. Could be fwd or rwd, afterall the HS Chevette, Talbot Sunbeam Lotus and Ti were hot hatches and were rwd.
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I'm in complete agreement.

Nobody really drives around in bog-standard Imprezas (well you get the odd few fools but as a proportion it is low) as the Impreza was always built with the performance version at the forefront imo, whereas something like a Clio can be seen in it's standard form in it's thousands but they decided to make a hot hatch version as well. Does that make sense? That's the way I think of it at least.

It doesn't matter what wheels are driven, in many cases FWD cars are just as fast if not faster than their AWD equivelent. They tested the Mk2 FRS as AWD and FWD, and the FWD car was faster in every way. Of course there is always AWD for those that struggle with driving at pace :lol::lol::lol:

They don't make proper hot hatches any more, regardless of what anyone says.
 
Yugguy said:
Interesting, why? Genuine question. For me it's times like the in gear acceleration from 30 to 50 or 50 to 70 that's more important. For UK roads anyway.
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No problem :) so a genuine answer -
I didnt mean Id rather have a car that accellerates from 100 instead of say 30-50 I meant I want one that does both

Hot hatches are ok for low down accelleration but they wont be quicker than a large car if the engine in powerful enough
And once you reach an open road even comparing 30-50 mph there will be no comparison . And the faster you are going the bigger difference.

Of course it mean a love affair with the petrol station but its only money........
 
The only roads in your world must be straight mate. Most hot hatches are built for maximum enjoyment without having to do massive speeds, travelling along at 140 (private road) in the old mans Supra felt like doing 80, and doing 80 in the Punto felt like doing 140 lol. More enjoyment going less quickly, and with all the limits in the UK that's what you need.

Around a tight track tanks like yours would struggle to keep up with some hot hatches with half the power.
 
I think in terms of definition we can fully accept your Punto, despite the fact that some say that HH's should be naturally aspirated.

If we can allow a diesel turbo HH the a petrol one surely has to be admitted.
 
MasterAuron said:
The only roads in your world must be straight mate. Most hot hatches are built for maximum enjoyment without having to do massive speeds, travelling along at 140 (private road) in the old mans Supra felt like doing 80, and doing 80 in the Punto felt like doing 140 lol. More enjoyment going less quickly, and with all the limits in the UK that's what you need.

Around a tight track tanks like yours would struggle to keep up with some hot hatches with half the power.
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Sorry but you truly have no idea .

Just because youve driven a supra once or twice doesnt qualify you to make the above sweeping statement When you have driven a 500 bhp car I will listen to you

Supras do handle like tanks - they are rwd and struggle to keep any real power on the road .

Funnily enough thats pretty much the same as a fwd hot hatch - put much more than 200bhp through the front wheels and the same happens
Thats why I prefer to drive an awd car with a fair bit of power.

I dont hate hot hatches in fact my daily drive for the last year has been exactlly that - an 03 civic with a screaming vtec engine .
Its a great car but like most hot hatches has its limitations and thats my point.

You say that hot hatch are not built for massive speeds . The reason is they cant be. FWD has its limits
 
And the Focus Rs defies all those limits and does it very well indeed.
Tbh I understand where MA is coming from.
You don't need big power to be fast.
Maybe in a straight line then yes but not when it come to the twisties.
 
Do you struggle to read by any chance?

The two statements made by myself were completely unrelated, hence seperate paragraphs. In the first instance, I was referring to the notion of speed in two different cars (as living examples) and the second was referring to YOUR car being bested by some hot hatches with half the power.

Now where in that did I state that Supras handle like tanks, refer to RWD or struggling to keep power on the road? Not everybody wants or needs AWD to hold their hand.

Most race cars (excluding rally) are RWD in case you hadn't noticed LOL.
 
Well Sleeper, I currently run a FWD Saab 9-3 with a rolling road proven 321bhp (210bhp factory standard) and it is both very good in a straight line and on a track! All being well, by Easter I hope to have a 400bhp MapTun 2 Litre race engine installed into my car ;)

I have spent considerably more than the original purchase price of my car in the way of performance modifications to the Beast.

My point is, is that this fictional notion that a FWD has it's limits! Has forever been dispelled time and time again! The boundaries are constantly moved forward year after year by both manufacturers and gifted independent garages.

I think the possibilities for any engine and driving format, is limited only by your wallet, relevant technologies, and your imagination :)
 
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