clutch slip

Has your Leon been remapped? The TDi's are very torquey engines and can give signs of mild slip even if the wear is not excessive when remapped.

The problem with clutch slip is that it's a self compounding problem. The small amount of slip increases the wear rate massively. Thus the small bit of wear becomes a bigger bit of wear, thus creating more slip and so on.......

How many miles has the car (and the clutch) covered?
 
HDi fun said:
Has your Leon been remapped? The TDi's are very torquey engines and can give signs of mild slip even if the wear is not excessive when remapped.

The problem with clutch slip is that it's a self compounding problem. The small amount of slip increases the wear rate massively. Thus the small bit of wear becomes a bigger bit of wear, thus creating more slip and so on.......

How many miles has the car (and the clutch) covered?
Click to expand...
yeah had the car remapped on saturday 189bhp 310lbft really noticeable difference.car and clutch done 73k to the best off my knowledge.

what seems to be happening is doing about 40mph in3rd gear about 3000rpm engine losses power then seems to kick in after few seconds?almost like theres abit off turbo lag, does this sound like it could be the clutch sliping? thanks for any advice.
 
vicktor said:
yeah had the car remapped on saturday 189bhp 310lbft really noticeable difference.car and clutch done 73k to the best off my knowledge.

what seems to be happening is doing about 40mph in3rd gear about 3000rpm engine losses power then seems to kick in after few seconds?almost like theres abit off turbo lag, does this sound like it could be the clutch sliping? thanks for any advice.
Click to expand...

If it seems to lose power but the revs are not rising then the clutch isn't slipping.

If the acceleration tails off yet the revs continue to rise savagely then it is the clutch slipping. You'd notice this very quickly - the revs would rise to nearly 5000rpm and the car would gradually catch up with it. This would be accompanied by some smoke and a horrible smell of what is basically burning clutch linings. If this isn't what's happening then read on:

When an ECU is remapped via the OBD2 port the first time it's switched on it reverts to the (new, remapped) base settings for fuel dwell, timing, duration etc. Also the boost control system will revert to the new base settings.

Over time the ECU 'learns', for want of a better word, its place in life and creates overlay tables for fuel and boost controls according to the input data provided in real time by the car, whilst being driven. This is the same as the car does right from the production line. Just that you've started this process again after a remap. It's quite normal. This is one very sound reason to avoid plug in tuning boxes - this process does not occur.

Give it a few more days before questioning the clutch, again, if the revs aren't rising without an increase in car speed then the clutch is fine.

When my car was first remapped it behaved similarly. Strange hollows in the response curve and curious mad overboost silliness when hitting 3300rpm. A few hundred miles later and it all smoothed out.

And the clutch survived to 117,000 miles.

Dont' panic yet
 
thanks hdi
will stop worrying for a week or two as it sounds like you say,the car is getting to know the new map.
if it was the clutch i'd have to get uprated one, any idea on which to go for and how much that would cost?

appreciate all the help

rich
 
How many miles on the car? I had mine replaced at 105,000 so just used a standard one as in my opinion (and thanks to Waynne) had done quite well anyway in a large and torquey car.

An uprated clutch shouldn't cost much more than an OEM standard one. DO change to whole lot though, not just the plate. ANd if a stiffer spring plate is used make sure that the hydraulics are uprated to stand the extra force. You don't want anything too racey for road use as the clutch will become a bit now you see me now you don't (ie. savage).
 
watch out you may also need to chnge out the duel mass flywheel out as well as this may be on its way out as well (same time as the clutch) normally advised to change them both togeather
 
I had mine done at the same time (the DMF was a warranty job so I got the clutch for cost of parts only!!!). Replaced the DMF with a Valeo solid replacement part. It means that there's now a tiny bit of dieselly sound (there was none nefore) but the drivetrain should be much more resilient. THe engine has twin balancer shafts anyway so most of the vibration is dealt with by those.
 
thanks for all your help guys.
don't think it's clutch anymore, but the map finding out about itself like HDi say's. hopefully.?
 
I use B.P diesel with millers every top up.

yeah settling down now i think, been trying to get it to do the same thing but i can't? which is good i hope.

cheers
rich
 
BP Ultimate is very good for me. Constant fuel changes can cause issues with a performance remap - the car is trying equalise all the input data whilst keeping the exhaust as clean as possible. Does your Leon have a particle filter? These are clever devices but they really can confuse a remapped ECU in the early stages due to the regeneration processes that have to take place periodically
 
HDi fun said:
BP Ultimate is very good for me. Constant fuel changes can cause issues with a performance remap - the car is trying equalise all the input data whilst keeping the exhaust as clean as possible. Does your Leon have a particle filter? These are clever devices but they really can confuse a remapped ECU in the early stages due to the regeneration processes that have to take place periodically
Click to expand...

had no idea about changing the fuel, won't affect me though,always BP and millers.never tried ultimate is it really worth the extra £?

no my car does'nt have a DPM Mk1 leon. i think there on all Mk2 diesel leons. have read some where that some remappers have got round the problem of the DPM regeneration?
 
Ultimate is very good indeed. I stick with it religiously, believing that it is far kinder to the engine's fuel system in general.

No mapper can get around the regeneration - the filter has to regenerate in order to not block. In my experience the filters regenerate more completely in a remapped car. This is possibly due to the exhaust gas temperatures being higher when the car is driven swiftly.

My DPF was replaced at 50,000 miles (which is the suggested interval) and it was reporting faults at that point.

Car remapped at 55,000. And I still have the same filter at 122,000 miles with NO faults reported or any loss of torque being noticeable. (That's 22,000 miles over the prescribed 50k suggested!).

cautious use of diesel additives can help this as well. Millers DPS4 is good, forte diesel treatment works well.

I've recently investigated a Wynns professional formula which seems again to appear good on the surface. Not actually put it in the car yet but I have 5 bottles here waiting to be tested.
 
The Wynns stuff does seem to work well but I have NO scientific evidence. It's also a bottle per fill so it's pricey compated to Millers. The Millers diesel sport stuff does raise the cetane number and does provide more torque and performance.

Overall I think that quality fuel is worth the money - BP ultimate. If you're planning to keep your car for the long term (as I always do with mine) then some additional cleansing additives are worthy. But you must do the sensible thing and keep servicing up to date and obey the HDi golden rules of cold and gentle, hot and cool down before switching off.

I don't like oil additives at all. OK, they might have a use of you have a car with a problem and simply want to get a few thousand more miles from it before it's retired. FOr this purpose they are pssibly very good. But it the long term there is no oil additive yet that has not caused subsequent problems. Far better to use a high quality oil than a cheap one and then pile in half a litre of snake oil.

Also, don't get carried away with the 'high mileage' oils available. These are more viscous than the recommended grade. Their use can cause crankcase pressures to increase, thus pushing oil past seals and rings with the result being a smoky engine and poor emissions control.
 
well its happend the clutch is slipping.oh sh*t.not gonna bother uprating the clutch just put OEM one back in that's what i've been advised to do by the mechanic.like to know what you guys think?
 
I had mine replaced at just over 100,000 miles. I, too, was considering an uprated item over the OEM one (which had been in the car since new).

I posted my options on here, ie. uprated clutch and received very swift replies from both Waynne and pgarner, both of whom suggested that if I'd had over 100,000 miles use from an OEM clutch in a diesel car that had been remapped from 55k ish onward then the OEm clutch is more than up to the job and therefore to replace like with like.

I followed this advice, and am not disappointed. I DID have some slip issues with the new clutch at first. I think this was due to a little bit of contamination from packing grease.

One savage 'take off' from standstill in fourth, resulting in a LOT of smoke cured the problem once and for all.

I seems your mechanic's thoughts concur with those that led me to follow a similar route.

Good question, and this really is the place to pose such questions.
 
thank's HDI happy to here this, much cheaper too £300 OEM fitted as opposed to nearly £1000 fitted for an uprated clutch fitted.
should i change the DMF? if the old one is ok will this bed in ok with the new clutch?
 
you dont have to but is very advisable as your doing the job already. think if you get the clutch kit from seat it will include the flywheel as well.

i found the same 5 speed clutch around £500 for an uprated one, the 6 sd however over £1000. have read up that the clutch in the petrol is supposed to be the same as the diesel one yet to double check it however
 
I had the DMF replaced at the same time as the garage had noticed some signs of ageing and very kindly put it through under warranty so all I paid for was the parts for the clutch itself. All labour and cost of flywheel was borne by Ford UK. Something of a result.

We replaced the DMF with a Valeo model specific solid flywheel alternative part. We also used a suitable Valeo clutch (but to OEM std. not uprated) to match. This does mean that the engine is not quite so silky smooth as before but I do not have the risk of the DMF failing in future (warranty has finished now) and solid flywheels generally do not fail.

Personally I think I'd prefer to have the DMF (105,000 miles is quite reasonable) and if you're paying for the clutch labour time then the DMF will be a part cost only. They're not outrageously expensive as far as I understand.
 
yet again really good advice guy's,
gonna try and find out how much new OEM,DMFwill be as i have limited funds at the mo.
cheers
rich
 
That's what this forum is all about. Open and honest discussion with a view to helping others get the best from their cars and their driving. Mixed in with a dose of good humour and the occasional rant it works very well indeed.

Make certain that the garage or workshop fully understands your car. There are many so called 'diesel specialists' out there who are still stuck in 1985 with Vauxhall Cavalier 1.6Ds in their minds and fail to understand the sheer mid range muscle a modern diesel can generate and the implications it has upon transmissions, transaxles etc.

Bye4now,

Rgds,

HD
 
whats the engine code ? ill try and ind out a rough price although my seat data is more out of date than my vw stuff ( its finally up to 2007 )
found the AHF ASV engines clutch with flywheel is around £700 thats for the 225mm clutch.
theres also a 210mm anf 240mm flywheel
 
pgarner
2004 engine code ARL.
had a quote for DMF £250, clutch kit £130 both plus VAT sound about right???
 
my versions not up to take but the prices im getting for the ARL are
clutch pressure plate - 038 141 025 RX - £131 + vat
DMF - 038 105 266 AG - £429 ?????? dont think that price is right

quick hunt on the internet turned up OEM around £252 + vat so your prices are about right.
 
pgarner said:
can you also let me know if the part numbers are correct i your getting seat to do it
cheers
Paul
Click to expand...
sorry PG had a mechanic do the job so can't tell you if part No. are correct,thanks for info anyway.
did'nt need new DMF car feels so much better now,with the bite point much lower down on the clutch peddel.
thanks for all the info guys,
rich:D
 
no worries mate, wouls liked to have seen how far out the seat pages were.

just watch out for a loud knocking sound when idleing, if you caught the clutch slip early enough you may hav ot away with it
 
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