A8 3.7 V8 Pipercross Air Filter or Induction Kit

Marc07

Road Burner
Points
27
Location
UK - Bexley
Car
Audi A8 3.7 V8 40V
Hello Guys

I know very little about sport/performance air filters, just basics really, but I'm seriously thinking of installing one. I've read the Air Filters article and to be honest everything is against me.

Engine: V8 3.7 40v / 280 BHP

Bad points:
- engine produces ridiculous amount of heat
- lack of space in engine bay
- ??air flow sensor just by the air box ??? some one told me that if I take the air box out and put the cone filter in it's place, then it could effect me in some bad way, but not explained exactly what wrong can happen, with cone filter I will get more air flow and sensor being just by the filter my register to much air something ????

P1080562.jpg

P1080564.jpg

P1080565.jpg

P1080563.jpg


Thats the filter I was thinking about
pip_universal-clamp-on.jpg


Thats the link to DT website where I found it, if you click on 'Foam Top Dimensions' just under the picture you will get all the data.

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Motor...op_Rubber_Neck_Universal_Air_Filter/1689/3257

Can't remember no what wax exactly the diameter on the end of the pipe, nut it was either 85mm or 90mm, so from that table looks that filters diameter will have to be the 150mm and the lenght/height of it 200mm.

I'm planning to put a chip as well together with the filter to achieve the magic 300+ BHP (310BHP -ish to be precise),

All your help and knowledge is very much appreciated.
Regards

Marc
 
Howdo.

Open cones in the engine bay are pointless.

You either need a closed IK or you site the open one in somewhere like the wing, or near the front bumper, on the end of ducting that goes to your intake, where the airbox was.
 
Howdo.

Open cones in the engine bay are pointless.

You either need a closed IK or you site the open one in somewhere like the wing, or near the front bumper, on the end of ducting that goes to your intake, where the airbox was.

Hello m8
Thanks for your reply.
Well, that's what I was thinking more less after reading the article in here about air filters, because the temp of sucking air would be hot like in hell, but just want to be sure that I understand it correctly.
I looked between engine bay and bottom of the windscreen where the cabin air filter is, but it's fully packed with other stuff.
Looked behind the bumper, but again lots of stuff packed as well.
If you look at this picture I don't think I'll be even able to squeeze a intercooler, the gap may look big on the picture, but in reality all you can put there is your hand.

P1080566.jpg


Would the induction kit within the space of air box when taken out???
or
How about maybe fitting somehow a filter inside the box, would that work??

Thanks once again for all your help.

Regards
Marc07
 
try an upgraded panel filter. uses original air box, but allows for greater air flow.

Hello Olley

Thanks for advice.
Do you mine like K&N replacement filter ?????
When I spoke to K&N after there was no 3.7 quattro listed just 3.7 where other quattro's where listed separately, and lady took my details and rang like few hours later saying that they have performance replacement filter to all A8, just not for mine, how stupid is it.
I'm still not getting it, and sort of thinking about the one which is listed for 3.7 and all others (E-0775 k&n part no.), because quattro is just a different way of distributing the same power from the same engine.

What do you think about that???

She did mentioned to take the filter out and call them with a part number and size of it, so they may match it with other filters ?!?!

Which filters would you recommend apart K&N ???? or best place to get a really good and quality filter ???

Looking forward hearing from you guys
Marc07
 
Itg do good filters.

Agreed :) Most of the big boys in the air filter/IK world do good stuff, try also the greenfilters range. You would be surprised at where you can squeeze an IK kit in tbh. As previously mentioned, an open cone under the bonnet will give you problems with heat soak. I had overcome this particular issue on my own car in the past by having a heat shield placed between the cone and the main engine.
This was then covered in a special heat deflecting foil from Demon Tweeks.

I further added an additional universal cone heat shield that clips to the cone filter via it's jubilee clip. If you go down this route, be prepared also to have your engine remapped and the ECU parameters changed to tell the system in effect that there is more air coming into the engine as that it is ok! This is what I had to do; as it was bringing up the 'check engine light' every now and then. Took the car to a boffin who explained what was happening, 1 hour or so later and smiles all round.
 
Stamford's the man to answer this. :bigsmile:

But in the mean time, I'm going to play devils advocate here & ask, do you need to change the intake system on your car? I'm sure Audi would have spent quite a bit of effort & money making sure the 3.2 V8 is getting enough air.

My main concern is that fitting an after market filter might actually do more harm than good. But if your going to go for it then I would go for an enclosed system like the BMC or ITG Maxogen kits as Yugguy has already mentioned, the cold feed could also be taken from the inner wing.

For maximum benefit I would suggest Improving the breathing, fitting a freer/ free-er (?) flowing exhaust & then going for a proper re-map in one go rather than a bit at a time. :bigsmile:
 
Would a Milltek sports exhaust system be best for this Audi Loz?
I seem to remember Rob B buying one for the monster!
 
Thanks guys

I'm not saying that it's impossible to fit an air intake, but I've looked everywhere, wheel arches, behind the bumper. Engine bay is not fully sealed, but fully packed and even when I found a bit of space outside engine bay then there is no way to get there.

But, now when I've read all your replies, I've decided to go for just a replacement cotton filter just to increase the air flow. The only one manufacturer who does the filter for my engine, all sizes matches the original filter sizes, is Green Filters.

But, there is last one thing, as mentioned by Loz, do I still have to re-map the ecu if I fit the same filter just with better flow ?????????
I've got a plan already to get it chipped as I prefer chips than re-map, but if I would not do any of it, is that re-map necessary ????

Thats the original filter:

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/A...1f3f061640b7ea8211b8cb92bcd193bc13e2b4&000008

..and thats the Green Filters replacement with few mm's difference

http://www.green-filter.co.uk/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=37&products_id=206303

...and thats the K&N filter which is recommended for all A8 D3 Audi's , jusy not for mine one, how strange is it, there is 3.7 but not 3.7 in quattro. The biggest difference between K&N and two other ones you can see in Inner Diameter

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?prod=e-0775

What do you think guys ???

Regards
Marc07
 
...my life is not getting any easier :( , just checked the Miltek website and they don't do exhausts to any of A8's
 
Thanks guys
But, there is last one thing, as mentioned by Loz, do I still have to re-map the ecu if I fit the same filter just with better flow ?????????
I've got a plan already to get it chipped as I prefer chips than re-map, but if I would not do any of it, is that re-map necessary ????

What do you think guys ???

Regards
Marc07

If you just change the filter for a more free flowing version then no you will not require a remap! Not a keen fan of replacement chips tbh, given the choice I would much prefer to have a full remap done as a chip will not usually take into account the various anomalies of certain hardware on your car.
I am sure someone will be along in a while to explain the virtues of both systems more clearly than I.
 
Just noticed your in Bexley, is that Bexley Heath? if so, then Powerflow exhaust systems based in Croydon have a very good reputation with regards to custom systems, might be worth giving them a call to see what they can offer you.
 
Cheers T9 man ;)

Yes it is Bexleyheath and Croydon is just few miles away :)

In regards to chips and re-maps, I would love to hear more. From what I've read chips are better or more preferred !?!?! You can also always come back to stock.
But what made me think now, is what you said about cheap not taking to consideration some of the other hardware on the car, and one thing for sure is that A8's they have lots of it, in my opinion even to much of it, computers everywhere, almost every mechanical part have a electronic support....

I just saw your new pictures, You call it Beast, for me is more like a Art m8, great car and great effort and quality :) :) :)
Well done m8 ;)
 
Cheers T9 man ;)

Yes it is Bexleyheath and Croydon is just few miles away :)

In regards to chips and re-maps, I would love to hear more. From what I've read chips are better or more preferred !?!?! You can also always come back to stock.
But what made me think now, is what you said about cheap not taking to consideration some of the other hardware on the car, and one thing for sure is that A8's they have lots of it, in my opinion even to much of it, computers everywhere, almost every mechanical part have a electronic support....

I just saw your new pictures, You call it Beast, for me is more like a Art m8, great car and great effort and quality :) :) :)
Well done m8 ;)

Thank you very much for the compliment Marc ;)

If you have a full custom remap done on a rolling road, then this imo is much better than any chip replacement. The tuners will attach all kinds of sensors to your car to monitor what it is that the engine is actually doing while it is moving on the rolling road and also if the map they have just written is working as it should be. Any tweaks that are required can be done straight away and then can be proven to work before you take the car away.

I used a company called Viezu in Bromsgrove Birmingham for my first full remap. Yes it is far, but distance should never be an issue for getting the job done right first time. There may well be good tuners much closer to home but I am not familiar with Audi re-mappers I'm afraid. You could also try Celtic Tuning who have a good reputation and also there is a member on here called Rob Bentley who hails from Kent somewhere I think and has a good reputation for remapping and he is also a dedicated Audi fan. Try sending Rob a PM (Personal Message) and see what he can do for you!
Alternatively I am sure someone will pick up on this thread and will be able to advise much better than I somebody who can assist you in Audi performance suggestions/recommendations. ;)
 
Would a Milltek sports exhaust system be best for this Audi Loz?
I seem to remember Rob B buying one for the monster!

My mates 3.2 V6 TT has either a Remus or a Milltek I cant remember for sure.

Marc, Have a chat with these guys based in Bedford, I went down with my mate to see these them when he had his car done, the chap who runs it really knows his stuff & at the time was running a Blue V8 Audi Estate ( I forget the model, I can't keep up with all the RS numbers! :embarrest:) that was over 500bhp. Although it's called the TT shop he covers everything VAG, the workshop really impressed me it was like a hospital! :lol:

http://www.thettshop.co.uk/
 
remaps can be uploaded in seconds for much easier to change the mapping to get the best from it.

chips mean digging out the ECU fitting the new chip then removing reprogramming refitting etc until you have the map running right

thats for a custom map rather than a generic as generic ones will all be the same and the car will adjust slightly.


plus more places will remap as its easier to do


was the 3.7 fitted to anything else ? never seen it as its normally the 4.2
 
Hi pgarner

Thanks for making it more clear for me. I've just send an email to website's new remap partner JFAutomotive so we will see what they say and will update you as soon I hear from them.
In regards to engine, no, it is as a standard Audi V8 engine, exactly same engine what 4.2 just 3.7, both V8, both 40v, just 0.5l difference ;)

Also in regards to chipping, its not a problem as I had the ecu out already, soldering is not a problem as well.
The problem could be in getting a best chip for my engine, and as it was mentioned above, chips may not take to consideration other hardware installed on the car/engine, end A8 have lots of it, so that 1 information, very quickly turned me around and I started to think about remap, so still confused, but will see what JFA says.

Do everyone think that remap is better than chip ???????
 
.....ah sorry, from what I remember the 3.7 V8 was for the A8 only. I never saw any other Audi with this engine, buuuuut some Audi Allroad quattro could have it installed as well...
 
I would think the current induction set-up is probably the best Audi could make as they do not normally compromise when it comes to the parts bin exercise. If you have little or no room to extend the pipe work out of the engine bay to say an inner wing location, away from engine heat, then it'll mean a replacement panel filter such as Green. Another thing to do is check the filter box for reinforcement ribs and mouldings that could disrupt the airflow, remove these. Does this set-up have a resonator box fitted? If so remove it as this will allow more airflow and release some noise ;)

A chip is at best generic so may work if the car is stock. If the car has been tweaked a bit then the map may not make any difference to what's already been done. The specification ecu may also have scope to learn certain changes. I know the MG Siemens ecu can accept quite a few mods and learn from this before a remap is required. However a remap is really the only way forward as the current ecu map can be interrogated and therefore used as a benchmark. Not many maps are 100% foolproof throughout the range, pump fuel grades also make a difference. The only problem you may have is finding a suitable remapper that knows the Audi system and has a 4wd rolling road.

At 280bhp that surprises me, I would have thought it would have more than that considering the engine size and weight of the car, perhaps it has some scope there. On my MG, which is nasp, I managed an increase of approximately 23bhp over stock using standard breathing mods and a remap, not bad for 95RON fuel and that's only a 2.5 litre giving 200bhp, quite miserly when compared to some on here! :p
 
I would think the current induction set-up is probably the best Audi could make as they do not normally compromise when it comes to the parts bin exercise. If you have little or no room to extend the pipe work out of the engine bay to say an inner wing location, away from engine heat, then it'll mean a replacement panel filter such as Green. Another thing to do is check the filter box for reinforcement ribs and mouldings that could disrupt the airflow, remove these. Does this set-up have a resonator box fitted? If so remove it as this will allow more airflow and release some noise ;)

A chip is at best generic so may work if the car is stock. If the car has been tweaked a bit then the map may not make any difference to what's already been done. The specification ecu may also have scope to learn certain changes. I know the MG Siemens ecu can accept quite a few mods and learn from this before a remap is required. However a remap is really the only way forward as the current ecu map can be interrogated and therefore used as a benchmark. Not many maps are 100% foolproof throughout the range, pump fuel grades also make a difference. The only problem you may have is finding a suitable remapper that knows the Audi system and has a 4wd rolling road.

At 280bhp that surprises me, I would have thought it would have more than that considering the engine size and weight of the car, perhaps it has some scope there. On my MG, which is nasp, I managed an increase of approximately 23bhp over stock using standard breathing mods and a remap, not bad for 95RON fuel and that's only a 2.5 litre giving 200bhp, quite miserly when compared to some on here! :p

Stamford, thanks a lot m8.

Well....I am going to replace the air filter with the Green Filter and do all the stuff you said, removing reinforcement ribs and all unnecessary bits.

Engine is stock, no modifications so far.
I'm still waiting for reply from JFAutomotive to see what they say, but will send an email to End Tuning as well and see what they can offer.
You see, I've been told on every occasion, before I found this community, to get it chipped, then some people gave me a logic (to me) advice of getting a remap as chips may not take all other hardware to consideration and it sounds like a good idea, so at the minute I'm still not sure what to do.

Yes, the current power is 280bhp, I'm not saying that is not enough or that there is a lack of power. Even if car is 5m long and weights almost 2tons, it's still very very quick. Quattro wont let you do any wheel spins so you always get a great start from traffic lights.

I just want more horse powers ;) but as you know, no matter how many bhps I will gain through chip or remap, it's still not enough ;) :)

The one thing I dont want to do is to mess it up, especially with the engine, I want to get it right like everyone, chip? remap? ....
 
Remap everytime. My stock ecu had high end afr readings that were wrong and this was set at the factory. The rolling road mapping found this and my mapper corrected this so the fuelling was spot on throughout the rev range. Not only did he release more but also improved the torque but the main thing was it ran alot smoother at the top end and as a result my ZS has a better mpg than before. I have seen a marked difference in fuel usage even when on track. Before I used to make a few trips to the petrol station during a typical trackday and now it is only twice. The last one I was surprised how little I got through and it was pretty much near the limiter every lap and I was carrying a passenger for over 60 laps.

Standard chip is a waste of money if you intend to play a bit more. Every car is different and no two engines will give the same results from a generic chip. However that is only my opinion and having been there before I wouldn't do it again.
 
Thanks Stamford ;)

I've just emailed End Tuning from Birmingham as well to see what they can offer and whats they honest opinion, but looks like I'm slowly start changing my mind going more in direction of getting a remap instead of chip, I really want to get it right from the 1st time.

Guys, how difficult is to find a remapper with 4wd rolling road, does any one experienced that problem before ?????
 
give these guys a shout as well as they are close to you and are highly recommended on VAG forums

http://www.amdessex.com/

seeing as youve got a real 4wd it isnt too bad some of the bigger places will have them - amd im sure have well its rated to 1000bhp so i would hope its 4wd - had you had the haldex quattro then you would have had issues mapping it
 
OK Guys, so.......remap done, now the current min power is 302BHP and 395Nm of torque.
Now, I've ordered a performance replacement cotton filter from Green-Filters.

Are they really better than K&N as they are at least 25% more expensive???
what brand do you use?

And what sort of increase of power I can expect after installing it???? (more less)

Also, what is your opinion about Vpower fuels ??????
I've seen few tests on different tv car shows and from what I remember they do actually always increase BHPs, not drastically of course (as long we are not talking about completely knackered old engines), but what sort of increase of BHPs we are looking at when car is constantly filled with Vpower petrol???

Any opinions about that ????

As always, looking forward hearing from you ;)
Cheers
Marc07
 
Not a bad increase at all. Did you ask the mapper these questions? I would have recommended fitting the mods before mapping as this will make a difference. Also higher octane fuels will burn much better in a high quality engine set-up. My remap was on 95RON and I keep meaning to return to him to get a 98/99RON check-up as the afr may change. Some ecu's can handle the change via the knock sensors but mapped ones really need to be checked again 'live' on the rolling road to make sure. The more clued up members will add the technical blurb I'm sure.
 
I only ever put VPOWER in mine, and I get more power and more miles per tank. I've not measured it but the power gain is noticable. It does also clean the engine, I can see the soot lifting off the exhaust when I'm using it, and if I switch to another brand after a few 100 miles the exhaust pipes are all black and sooty again.

I have a K&N in mine and it works very well. The K&N one is made of a cotton gauze as well so performance is similar. Most aftermarket filters flow rates are well above that required by a car on full throttle at high RPM so personally I don't think there is a lot to choose between them.

Don't expect a big power hike from a filter alone. You will notice that the cars engine braking is reduced and that it breathes more easily so RPM changes come a little more easily.
 
I try to use Vpower as much as possible it is marvellous stuff. If I have to fill up elsewhere for some reason then I try and fill up the tank with BP Ultimate.

As our young Stamford has already mentioned to you, try and put all of your hardware on the car first before the remap (a bit late now, I know).
The remapper can then take into account all of the various additions fitted to the car and can then squeeze out a few more extra horses for you!

As you have had the initial remap done already, in theory then, you should get a much more favourable rate from him when you take it back in the future after having a few more toys fitted. :)
 
i use vpower as this is what it was mapped for.

even before mapping i done some runs a few weeks apart on standard shell then the v power. gave it a couple of weeks to make sure all the 95 was out. got something like 7bhp and 10ftlb difference
 
Cool....all I'm waiting for now is the filter.

I've ordered some Osram NB+ as well, got my new fresh plates this morning, I really recommend www.demonplates.com , quality stuff and you can have them even next day if you provide all the documents on time before 12pm.

Also I will think about having my remap checked once again after installing the filter if that is really what I should do ?? how serious is it, to have my remap checked or adjusted??

And obviously I'm in the process of deciding about new 20'' wheels, more in this post
http://www.torquecars.com/forums/f119/alloys-upgrade-21117/

please say what you think about those 2 sets I found, :):):)
 
Well well well....finally, after weeks of waiting and few delays, filter has arrived this morning :):):)

P1080732.jpg


P1080740.jpg


It was a bit of hassle as it is really hard to get an filter for this car and this engine especially, but Green-Filter just made this happen.

Can I see the difference, YES.
Is it big, not really, but the engine runs a bit more smoothly during the accelerating and when rev'd, I think, or I want to think this way after such a long wait and expectations, but it's not a bad investment. We will see in next couple of days when checked in different circumstances to see if engine reacts in a slightly different way.
Induction kit would be ideal obviously, but if you struggle with space in the engine bay then standard replacement cotton filter is not bad at all.
 

Please watch this on my YouTube channel & Subscribe.


Back
Top