tracking

[prevtec]

can anybody explain how tracking should be properly done??
and dont answer me with ( a laser system) im talking about no.

you see, my brother tracked my car on tuesday last but the car feels ropey, why is this?? the car does drive and brake in a straight line

when i got the bushing kit installed, it was tracked again, but by the quallified mechanic thats there, and it felt solid (perfect)

the differance
my brother done it by bringing the 2 front wheels to 0 on each side
then added up the no. on the back, it was 4 on each side.. his method for that is add the 2 = 8, divide by 2 = 4 = equal no.= perfect

the other mechanic done the tracking by a book = the manufactors
-1 here plus 1 here, 3 and 4 there

also when both tracked the car, my steering wheel is not straight, a bit to the left, but the car drives in a straight line if left in that position



while on the subject, my brother also balanced all 4 wheels, but there a nasty wobble at 120 - 160 kph, could this be due to the tracking been ropey also??
it could be a buckle in the wheel, i hoped of a pothole ( perfect irish rd lol)
even though its balenced, would a buckle still efect the balancing even after it was balanced??
and how safe is it to have a buckled wheel on the back along with a wheel that dosent look buckled, but takes something like 200 in weights

hope this makes sense but if it dont ask me to be more clear in what im saying, because i do travel fast and i cant relax if my car isnt a 100 percent, so i need answers to wtf i should do

thanks in advance prevtec

[turbonutter69]

Originally Posted by prevtec

can anybody explain how tracking should be properly done??
and dont answer me with ( a laser system) im talking about no.

you see, my brother tracked my car on tuesday last but the car feels ropey, why is this?? the car does drive and brake in a straight line

when i got the bushing kit installed, it was tracked again, but by the quallified mechanic thats there, and it felt solid (perfect)

the differance
my brother done it by bringing the 2 front wheels to 0 on each side
then added up the no. on the back, it was 4 on each side.. his method for that is add the 2 = 8, divide by 2 = 4 = equal no.= perfect

the other mechanic done the tracking by a book = the manufactors
-1 here plus 1 here, 3 and 4 there

also when both tracked the car, my steering wheel is not straight, a bit to the left, but the car drives in a straight line if left in that position



while on the subject, my brother also balanced all 4 wheels, but there a nasty wobble at 120 - 160 kph, could this be due to the tracking been ropey also??
it could be a buckle in the wheel, i hoped of a pothole ( perfect irish rd lol)
even though its balenced, would a buckle still efect the balancing even after it was balanced??
and how safe is it to have a buckled wheel on the back along with a wheel that dosent look buckled, but takes something like 200 in weights

hope this makes sense but if it dont ask me to be more clear in what im saying, because i do travel fast and i cant relax if my car isnt a 100 percent, so i need answers to wtf i should do

thanks in advance prevtec

About the wheel wobble. There is a plastic circle that sits in your wheel. It's called a spigot wheel or something if this has been left out that will cause the wheel to wobble. A garage left it out by accident once in my mums car an it was like somethin had taken over the steering wheel

[gendox]

yea thats probly why my gf had somthing knocking and it was that part so i took it off to stop it and the car was a nutter

[stamford]

Tracking should be done using gauges to set each side against the chassis be it tow in or toe out. The steering wheel is always straight ahead and each side adjusted to the manufacturers specs as all cars have different settings. Remember lowering a car will also upset the geometry, so your camber maybe out too.

A rim can be easily dinked with a flat spot to cause wobble, a lost weight or indeed a missing spigot ring.

[HDi fun]

Tracking should be done with the steering wheel clamped straight ahead. Also, it's not enough to simply align the front wheels to some arbitrary line through the centre of the car. To be done properly the garage will fit optical devices to all four wheels.

If the rear is adjustable then this should be aligned first. Only then is the front aligned.

[prevtec]

Originally Posted by turbonutter69

About the wheel wobble. There is a plastic circle that sits in your wheel. It's called a spigot wheel or something if this has been left out that will cause the wheel to wobble. A garage left it out by accident once in my mums car an it was like somethin had taken over the steering wheel

i know the thing, il suss that out mate, thanks

[prevtec]

Originally Posted by stamford

Tracking should be done using gauges to set each side against the chassis be it tow in or toe out. The steering wheel is always straight ahead and each side adjusted to the manufacturers specs as all cars have different settings. Remember lowering a car will also upset the geometry, so your camber maybe out too.

A rim can be easily dinked with a flat spot to cause wobble, a lost weight or indeed a missing spigot ring.

maybe thats why it was perfect when the other mechanic done it, he goes of the man handbook

[prevtec]

Originally Posted by HDi fun

Tracking should be done with the steering wheel clamped straight ahead. Also, it's not enough to simply align the front wheels to some arbitrary line through the centre of the car. To be done properly the garage will fit optical devices to all four wheels.

If the rear is adjustable then this should be aligned first. Only then is the front aligned.

thanks hdi, il say that on saturday when the other mechanic is doing it

[prevtec]

so a wobble steering wheel is down to balancing or that ring ye guys are on about
also the steering wheel is clamped straight ahead before tracking, when its tracked its off to the left, what could this be??

[HDi fun]

If it's off to the left the the tracking is incorrectly set. Are they tracking fronts to rears or fronts to an imaginary line drawn along the length of the car?

You cannot track a vehicle to an imaginary line.

Refer to this article:

http://www.amdtechnik.com/technical.4wheelalignment.cfm

[prevtec]

Originally Posted by HDi fun

If it's off to the left the the tracking is incorrectly set. Are they tracking fronts to rears or fronts to an imaginary line drawn along the length of the car?

You cannot track a vehicle to an imaginary line.

Refer to this article:

http://www.amdtechnik.com/technical.4wheelalignment.cfm

thanks hdi, so the mechanic that works off the manu handbook is doing it right, all cars have a different line, this explains how he comes up with the -2 and plus 4 for the back and so on

[turbonutter69]

Originally Posted by prevtec

thanks hdi, so the mechanic that works off the manu handbook is doing it right, all cars have a different line, this explains how he comes up with the -2 and plus 4 for the back and so on

It used to be done with things clamped to your wheels and mirrors. Nowadays most garages have got the laser technology which is as you know pinpoint acurate. I wouldn't trust the old method on modern cars as they as far more complex than older models. On newer cars if just 1 thing is out it may also throw something else out too. The wheel wobble is 1 of 3 things.
1. The spigot wheel.
2. Wheel balancing is out.
3. And the dangerous 1 check your wheel nuts are tight. Just to be safe that is.

[HDi fun]

Incorrect tracking feels totally different to any of those. It's a feeling of the car on tippy toes. Imagine trying to negotiate a downhill 180 degree hairpin with a fully loaded shopping trolley.

[old-git]

Originally Posted by HDi fun

Incorrect tracking feels totally different to any of those. It's a feeling of the car on tippy toes. Imagine trying to negotiate a downhill 180 degree hairpin with a fully loaded shopping trolley.

Absolutely.

We recently bought an Astra 2litre turbo convertible for the wife. It has wide, low profile tyres and felt very twitchy, which I put down to the tyres having very little give in their walls.

However, when the front tyres were replaced the garage discovered that the wheels were toeing out 3-4 degrees! They corrected this and now it handles like a dream. This made sense as toe out inproves initial turn in to a corner but makes the car unstable in a straight line.

[HDi fun]

4 degrees is massive though. I know that torquey FWD cars benefit from a couple of decimal points of a degree toe out given the tendency for the front wheels to toe in under hard acceleration. I bet that the astra nearly met my theoretical loaded trolley analogy with 3-4 degrees toe out. It's surprising that the inside edge of the tread wasn't down to the metal.

[prevtec]

Originally Posted by turbonutter69

It used to be done with things clamped to your wheels and mirrors. Nowadays most garages have got the laser technology which is as you know pinpoint acurate. I wouldn't trust the old method on modern cars as they as far more complex than older models. On newer cars if just 1 thing is out it may also throw something else out too. The wheel wobble is 1 of 3 things.
1. The spigot wheel.
2. Wheel balancing is out.
3. And the dangerous 1 check your wheel nuts are tight. Just to be safe that is.

the nuts are all tight, the balancing was done also, so il check for the ring on saturday when its all been fixed

[prevtec]

Originally Posted by HDi fun

Incorrect tracking feels totally different to any of those. It's a feeling of the car on tippy toes. Imagine trying to negotiate a downhill 180 degree hairpin with a fully loaded shopping trolley.

thats what it feels like, i know the difference between tracking and balancing so members keep tracking to tracking, and balancing to balancing
anyway hdi, thats what it feels like, and the type of car it is and whats done to it, it shouldnt feel like that, it was perfect when i had it done when the suspension kit was installed, i couldnt lose the car if i tried, now im afraid if i try, i wont be here talking to you anymore

that guide you gave today looked good so on sat when the qualified mech does it, should be back to normal, hopefully

[HDi fun]

It the car is geometrically intact then it will steer and drive beautifully after the whole unsprung mass is aligned correctly.

So often it's the case that the equipment the garage uses is absolutely fine, it's the attitude and ability of the operators of it that lets things down.

I don't know fi you have Kwik fit over there (I've not been to Ireland since 1998 ) but if you have, then avoid them totally. They couldn't align a pastry cutter to be quite honest.

[prevtec]

Originally Posted by HDi fun

It the car is geometrically intact then it will steer and drive beautifully after the whole unsprung mass is aligned correctly.

So often it's the case that the equipment the garage uses is absolutely fine, it's the attitude and ability of the operators of it that lets things down.

I don't know fi you have Kwik fit over there (I've not been to Ireland since 1998 ) but if you have, then avoid them totally. They couldn't align a pastry cutter to be quite honest.

we do mate and they should be called kwik fix = dont last long

back to the tracking and the system they use has just been calibrated
i guess my brother just cant do it properly, he is a 1st year apprentice aswell so im getting steve to do it for me, when he done it last, it was perfect

[HDi fun]

It seems that you've had some recent experiences with poor quality workmanship. Aligning modern cars (and we can take in some from 10-12 years ago) cannot be done by guessing the amount of spanner on nut on thread turns. You have to get that thrust line pointing straight ahead other wise your car will go one way on trailing throttle and t'other under acceleration.

I am a very fussy driver and if I cannot remove my hands from the steering wheel for hundreds of yards when driving on a truly flat straight road then the tracking calibration is not adequate for me.

It makes a massive difference to the feel of a car whilst driving it.

[prevtec]

Originally Posted by HDi fun

It seems that you've had some recent experiences with poor quality workmanship. Aligning modern cars (and we can take in some from 10-12 years ago) cannot be done by guessing the amount of spanner on nut on thread turns. You have to get that thrust line pointing straight ahead other wise your car will go one way on trailing throttle and t'other under acceleration.

I am a very fussy driver and if I cannot remove my hands from the steering wheel for hundreds of yards when driving on a truly flat straight road then the tracking calibration is not adequate for me.

It makes a massive difference to the feel of a car whilst driving it.

oh big time mate, i cant enjoy my spins if my car isnt 100 percent
with all the rd deaths and #!#!#!#! over here, im very paticular about car maintanance, its my life at the end of the day

[waynne]

Tyre pressures can also make a massive difference here so check that these are spot on before you begin.

[HDi fun]

I also hate the situation that arises if you're forced to replace just one front tyre as a result or an unrepairable puncture. Even a couple of mm difference in tread depth can upset the handling

[turbonutter69]

Originally Posted by HDi fun

I also hate the situation that arises if you're forced to replace just one front tyre as a result or an unrepairable puncture. Even a couple of mm difference in tread depth can upset the handling

Yup I know that 1. I normally do both if I can afford it though...

[HDi fun]

I always replace in pairs or all four but obviously you can't do this if you get a puncture in the shoulder