Viewing: roll cage - weight - petrol

**joshy1991** · 04-11-2011, 03:39 AM

hi guys and gals ,

right im slowly turning my car into a rally replica, and im wanting to go down the roll cage route, i have an automatic 106 (yes i know autos arent rally car material and i know not many people dont modify autos but i own one due to a disability stoppping me being ablee to do the clutch) anywhos back to topic, if possible i would like to know if i do install a roll ccage to my car , will my petrol consumption go up aka end up using more fuel,? its completely stripped out at th moment so theres no plastic door cards or anything inside , all thats left is the carpet , dashboard , and front seats, plz plz plz help ,

cheers in advance joshy,

**sir2you** · 04-11-2011, 05:28 AM

Yes! but hardly noticeable.

**stamford** · 04-11-2011, 09:10 AM

If it is just a replica then why not get a show cage made? It'll made from lightweight aluminium alloy and you can powder coat it. What you have removed already will probably not increase that much with the addition of this type of cage. It'll be alot cheaper than a conventional cage as it won't be certified for motorsport use.

**joshy1991** · 05-11-2011, 12:00 AM

cheers guys, i had thought about getting a show cage made , but i only know one person who can and he is normally to busy, is there anyone out there who makes fake cages , ???? or could make me a fake cage for show purpose? cheers for the info , very helpful thankyou,

***Prince*** · 07-11-2011, 08:42 PM

A roll cage should give you added benefits like a stiffer chassis as well. Both can be painted but a show cage wont add any protection which imo defeats the object.

**joshy1991** · 26-11-2011, 12:50 AM

what i meant was, make me a roll cage lol, do you guys know anyone who could make me one on the cheap?/???

***Prince*** · 26-11-2011, 11:41 AM

'Cheap' and 'roll cage' don't go together mate.

**sir2you** · 26-11-2011, 02:07 PM

How cheap is cheap? I`m sure if you were to aquire the metal tube (scaffold poles when I was banger racing) and cut them to length, making sure the joints butt up nicely ready to weld, someone should be able to weld it for about £50. I always go down my local senior school and ask the metalwork teacher if he or his lad`s want a project to do that will put money in thier tea boat, and get machining and the like done well cheap! OR buy a cheap mig welder and have a go yourself. there are some brilliant step by step welding guides on the web. Hope this helps Josh. Regards Keith.

***old-git*** · 26-11-2011, 05:12 PM

If you decide to build a roll cage yourself, it will only be for show. Unless you are an experienced welder and know how to design a cage that will work in your car you will only feel safer. In the event of a crash the stesses experienced by the cage will be enormous and amaturish welds just won't hold up.

For posing, home built is fine.
As a life saver, get it done properly. How much is your life worth? Only fit a £100 cage if your life is only worth £100

**MasterAuron** · 26-11-2011, 09:20 PM

Wise words. Not only that, a badly built cage can be a worse prospect in a crash than not having one.

***old-git*** · 26-11-2011, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterAuron

Wise words. Not only that, a badly built cage can be a worse prospect in a crash than not having one.

Good point.

**sir2you** · 27-11-2011, 03:09 AM

Come on guys! Surely the boy is talking about a "show" cage in a "look alike" rallye car! And please tell me how something copied from a rallye car and welded by a semi competent welder could be "more dangerous than not having one" you guys sound like old spoil sports. Anthing is better than nothing! when I was racing 30 years ago the cage was only welded if you knew how, otherwise they were put together with scaffold clamps. This was banger racing guys the cars were smashed to pieces and I never saw anyone suffer a bad injury protected by these cages! I am dead sure I would have if they had competed with nothing but the bare bodyshell. He`s talking about a road going 106 auto for chrissake not a track day 911 targa turbo! By the way, I am a young 60 year old ex race driver/mechanic that started off by fitting a tuned & balanced Ford Zodiac 2.6 engine running triple Amal motorcycle carbs, skimmed head, road/race cam & 6 into 3 into1 custom manifold into a road legal cut down Ford Thames 15cwt van. Do you just like to see yourselves in print or are you mechanical technicians or just killjoys?

***old-git*** · 27-11-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir2you

Come on guys! Surely the boy is talking about a "show" cage in a "look alike" rallye car! And please tell me how something copied from a rallye car and welded by a semi competent welder could be "more dangerous than not having one" you guys sound like old spoil sports. Anthing is better than nothing! when I was racing 30 years ago the cage was only welded if you knew how, otherwise they were put together with scaffold clamps. This was banger racing guys the cars were smashed to pieces and I never saw anyone suffer a bad injury protected by these cages! I am dead sure I would have if they had competed with nothing but the bare bodyshell. He`s talking about a road going 106 auto for chrissake not a track day 911 targa turbo! By the way, I am a young 60 year old ex race driver/mechanic that started off by fitting a tuned & balanced Ford Zodiac 2.6 engine running triple Amal motorcycle carbs, skimmed head, road/race cam & 6 into 3 into1 custom manifold into a road legal cut down Ford Thames 15cwt van. Do you just like to see yourselves in print or are you mechanical technicians or just killjoys?

Exactly our point. If he is planning a show cage, then it could be in plastic pipe painted to look like metal, or even covered with carbon fibre vinyl.

What is the definition of a semi-competent welder? Only some of his welds are ok?

Roll cages made from scaffold poles and held togther with clamps work very well if put together and tightened properly, as you know, as the clamps are as strong or stronger than a welded joint. The problem with a badly welded cage is that the joints are very weak and can fly apart in a crash, not something I would want to be near.

It has nothing to do with being spoil sports, we are just pointing out the options and their pros and cons and making the point that a show cage won't be much good in a serious crash, which a lot of modifiers don't seem to realise.

***Prince*** · 27-11-2011, 04:00 PM

Would ill advice on how to make a roll cage yourself be better? Show cages are pointless because they form over function. If I was to get a roll cage I would get a proper job done regardless of costs. It's like cheaping out on tyres and brakes. It's just not going to be safe.

**sir2you** · 27-11-2011, 08:24 PM

Hi again, by semi competent I mean, can make a good weld even if it is a bit blobby as you know a weld doesn`t have to look pretty to be strong (look at the first Japanese motorcycle frames). I`m not advocating the lad throws caution to the wind but he obviously needs a low budget solution, and I am trying to put forward ideas for him to realise his dream, not putting forward negatives or discouraging him! ie. pointing out that it would be ok to fabricate from scaffold poles as they are very thick walled and I think anyone with metalwork basics could cut and shape the ends so that they fitted together nicely ready to weld. As I also pointed out the metalwork teacher at my local senior school successfully carried out loads of little welding and engineering jobs for very little cost when I raced motocross (scrambling) as a young man. As it gave him the opportunity to demonstrate the techniques to his pupils.

**stamford** · 28-11-2011, 01:08 PM

Just to reiterate my first post the lad clearly stated it was a replica and had no inclination to make it a full on rally car hence my suggestion of a show cage. I for one wouldn't bother personally as I believe in the real thing but if someone is clearly making a replica and using an auto 106 then why not? The thread has gone off a tad and steered towards competition use and this is clearly not the intentions of the OP.

As for homemade cages then this is clearly an area for discussion and if for bangers and ovals then the final word is with the scrutineers and if passed fit for purpose and conforms to the club racing handbook regulations. I know for one as I have built cages myself to SEGTO specifications and my welding has been commented as being per MOT standards. Would be poor on me as I am an engineer and working for a welding company! With any type of welding it has to be right or not at all, there is no 'that'll do' about it.