How would you define a MUSCLE CAR?

[waynne]

There must be a simple set of characteristics which define a Muscle Car. The difficulty is in differentiating them from Super Cars?

Are musclecars always NASP, AMERICAN? I think not but what is it that makes a car a muscle car and not a supercar? Are all supercars 2 seaters? Again no so how would you define a supercar? What is the Nissan Skyline or the GTR?

[pgarner]

i would define a muscle car as 1 that is a simple setup

1. big engine up front min 400bhp
2. rear wheel drive
3. no traction control , abs anything else

[glaymore]

I think it would have to be a yank with a big, powerfull v8

[HDi fun]

Touraeg V10 probably qualifies on torque grounds but it would have to stripped bare meet the exacting requirements.

[old-git]

Originally Posted by waynne

There must be a simple set of characteristics which define a Muscle Car. The difficulty is in differentiating them from Super Cars?

Wiki has a pretty good definition:

A muscle car is an automobile with a high horse power engine, modest weight, capable of producing high levels of acceleration.[1] The term principally refers to American, Australian and South African models and generally describes a 2-door rear wheel drive mid-size car with a large, powerful V8 engine and special trim, intended for maximum torque on the street or in drag racing competition. It is distinguished from sports cars, which were customarily considered smaller, two-seat cars, or GTs, two-seat or 2+2 cars intended for high-speed touring and possibly road racing. High-performance full-size or compact cars are arguably excluded from this category, as are the breed of compact sports coupes inspired by the Ford Mustang. Other factors used in defining classic muscle cars are their age and country of origin. A classic muscle car is usually made in the U.S. or Australia between 1964 and 1975. The term "muscle car" did not enter common usage until after production of the cars had essentially ended. It is generally accepted that popular, widespread usage of the term took hold by the early to mid-1980s.

[StevieDB9]

is it just me or does american muscle cars have huge engines and not much power. ok they have more power than my polo but for example a BMW M3CSL has a 3.2l engine and chucks out roughly 350bhp (dont quote me tho) ,but certainly more than 100bhp per litre without the use of forced induction. (same story with some ferraris and im sure many more).

okay they have torque, but where is all the power going? or do they take the weight of the average american into account and give you a relative power figure

[pgarner]

yeah but muscle cars mainly run along the lines of a simple engine in most cases a hemi. this only gives a 2 valves per cylinder so less control of air fuel mix. And as most were built like og mentioned in the 60s and 70s then the technology wouldnt have existed such as vvt, sophisticated injection or even a ecu to adjust everything for best power / economy.

remember a 1930's rolls royce was 5 ltr and only produced around 50bhp. run forward 40 years and your looking 5ltrs kicking out 300ish.

[StevieDB9]

ah, i see. bout what about the dodge viper? thats a relatively newish car with a 8litre engine, power figures i think are around the 400bhp mark.

can anyone tell i dont like american engineering?

[HDi fun]

The flat plane crank American V8's were never intended to rev hard. Often peak power was delivered as lo as 4000rpm. An M3 needs over 8000rpm to show peak power.

They're low stressed lazy engines fed by 2 or 4 carburettors and dish out peak torque not much over idle speed.

Another stipulation is that it MUST HAVE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION of the slushy 3 speed variety.

[fingers]

A proper muscle car is big, comfortable and had a huge engine in it (usually with rubbish brakes and suspension).

Originally Posted by pgarner

yeah but muscle cars mainly run along the lines of a simple engine in most cases a hemi.

Sorry but wrong. no points for you. The legendary HEMI (short for hemispherical combustion chamber) was a Chrylser motor and a proper 426cubic inch HEMI is a rare and sought after thing. When first put into a road car in '66 (could be wrong on the year) the figures published by chrysler were 475bhp. This though already high was a deliberate false publication for legel reasons (not sure what they were). the true power output for one of these was closer to 515bhp. far more than anything else available at the time and more than most things now. If anyones interested I'll see what info I can find.

[HDi fun]

'There's no substitute for cubic inches' was the original American turn of phrase. As to who coined it, I have no idea. And in North America, with its penny gallons of gas, it's the right way to think.

It was common practice to over-fuel the engine all across the rev range using good 'ole quad port Holly carbs just to keep temperatures down.

I agree that rubbish brakes and questionable handling do add to the appeal. Not sure I fancy the idea on Britain's crowded roads of today but maybe it would add to the entertainment value.

Leaving a corner at 35mph and hitting 120mph before the next should certainly liven up an overcast Sunday afternoon.

On 5 inch wide Crossply tyres (tires, perhaps) and drum brakes all round.

Anyone for life insurance?

[pgarner]

Originally Posted by fingers

A proper muscle car is big, comfortable and had a huge engine in it (usually with rubbish brakes and suspension).



Sorry but wrong. no points for you. The legendary HEMI (short for hemispherical combustion chamber) was a Chrylser motor and a proper 426cubic inch HEMI is a rare and sought after thing. When first put into a road car in '66 (could be wrong on the year) the figures published by chrysler were 475bhp. This though already high was a deliberate false publication for legel reasons (not sure what they were). the true power output for one of these was closer to 515bhp. far more than anything else available at the time and more than most things now. If anyones interested I'll see what info I can find.

ahh sorry i thought the chrylser engine started the whole thing off. them more caught on normally running a slighty smaller size

Aye if you can dig some more up on it id be interested

[HDi fun]

Hemi combustion chambers were used in the Escort MkIII. And it was renowned for it's NVH problems. Perhaps if it had eight cylinders and a seven litre stroked volume then NVH would have nbeen negligible at 2000rpm.

[pgarner]

Nvh ???

[HDi fun]

Noise, vibration and harshness