Does PS, ABS and TC spoil a car?

[waynne]

Do you think that Power Steering, Antilock brakes and Traction Control and other gadgets spoil a car? Some argue that a real drivers car should have no artificial assistance and that the driver needs to be in full control and 'feel the car' through the pedals and steering wheel, wheras others argue that the safety and extra leeway for error given through these devices makes the car better!

An Example: Anyone can drive an EVO fast but a classic TVR requires more skill so which offers the best driver experience?

[billyo]

I think it depends on the skill of the driver. As you say an ameteur can drive an Evo fast but probably not a TVR an expert can drive an Evo even faster so I think it comes down to the driver. Personally I think ABS is too good to remove and is a life saver, no driver can have such control over braking on bends etc... but I would not say power steering is good on a drivers can as it robs you of all the feedback you get trough the wheels, and most people I know turn TC off unless it is snowy or icy.

[fingers]

Depends what you want the car for. On a family car I think these things are great for safety reasons but on my own cars I hate it. If you drive a car properly to its limits (and not your's) ABS and TC slow you down as you don't have full controll over the car, the ECU is taking it away from you, and PAS reduces road feedback through the wheel.

Horses for courses really.

[waynne]

I would not like to lose ABS - but I can live without power steering. All the cars I have owned with power steering were vague at best and you got no feedback whatsover (until the A3 which seems to have a progressive power steering and is nicely weighted and still lets you feed the road. But I suppose it does depend on driver preference and where you will be using the car.

[vr1066]

From the little experience I have I would go for no added extra's for a track day but for everyday road use it's better to have them all. For good days on a country road it would be good to have the option at a switch

[HDi fun]

Depends on the car - I'm using a Peugeot 406 currently and it's steering feel is sanitized. Previous car was Mk2 Nissan Primera (P11 chassis) GT. That was one tactile car. Sure it looked boring, the interior was tasteless, but boy did it have superb driving dynamics. It would corner in the wet at insane speeds simply because of the superb chassis and superb steering feel. I wouldn't delete any of the PS, ABS, TC stuff - They only interfere if you overcook it anyway.

I will add that the easiest way to learn to control a slide, skid, whatever you call it is to learn how to provoke one. Clearly you can't do this with all the 'assisters' turned on. Having learned how to provoke and control one, it's ieasy to learn not to invoke one, or how to do it intentionally when you want to do so. Such techniques do, however, belong on the track, not on the public highway.

[HDi fun]

I've also tried the Saxo VTR VTS toy cars - they're spineless, have sod all torque, body roll and crap steering anyway. Why one of these needs TC is beyond my reasoning.

[waynne]

Originally Posted by HDi fun

I've also tried the Saxo VTR VTS toy cars - they're spineless, have sod all torque, body roll and crap steering anyway. Why one of these needs TC is beyond my reasoning.

You're going to upset Freddie with your Saxoist remarks

It does surprise me what gets put on some of the smaller less powerful cars. I saw a 1.0 engine with aircon and I'm betting the thing stops dead when you turn it on!

[HDi fun]

It will stop dead with the a/c on. I had a Nissan Primera with the 2.0 150bhp engine and the air-con was stunning, freezing cold even when is 35 celcius outside. But with an engine that needs 7000+ rpm to give of its best, the compressor won the fight for power and torquw lower down.[/quote]

[StevieDB9]

put it this way, if youve ever been go-karting do you say " god I wish this go-kart had traction control"? Although on the road when your just driving normally all the gadgets are pretty good in my opinion