Can you run a car on water?

[waynne]

One for our resident chemists to theorise over.

Theory
Electrolysis used to split water into HHO gas which is highly flammible. Burn this gas along with regular fuel and get much better MPG. (The mixture with regular fuel negates the need for expensive engine conversion.) So with a litre of water you can get 1000's miles worth of energy by splitting it.

Reality:
Surely the amount of electricity used to "split the water" into this magic gas will be greater than the energy released when this gas is burned? The by product of burning HHO is water - very enviro fiendly.

If it really is this easy/safe/simple why don't car makers do this already? (Is there an oil company conspiracy? )

Why?:
I saw a "spend $50-$100 on a book site" with instructions on how to make this work. I am a little sceptical thinking about the laws of conservation of energy.

[HDi fun]

Laws of thermodynamics support your thoughts - ie. there would be a net energy input.

[pgarner]

the reason i thought this wasnt already happening was due to the amount of energy required to split the water.

if it could be done then energy companies would be making a fortune ( more than they already are ) as they wouldnt need to by in gas / oil

[HDi fun]

That's kind of where I was going. You'd need to chuck in more energy than would be released at the end.

I'm still working on my potato peeling fuelled car. Seem to be having a problem getting the things down the filler neck at the moment.

[waynne]

Try potatoe ice cream (Spud you lick have loads)

Does anyone know the energy requirements? There are videos around of cars running on water,

The gas is called oxyhydrogen, a bit more info that adds to the case that this might be possible. I'd really like some of our resident chemists to settle this either way. I can't really go on a gut feeling.

The output is pretty huge according to NASA Glenn Research Center Glenn Safety Manual which states "The quantity of heat evolved, according to Julius Thomsen, is 34,116 calories for each gram of hydrogen burned. This heat-disturbance is quite independent of the mode in which the process is conducted; but the temperature of the flame is dependent on the circumstances under which the process takes place. It obviously attains its maximum in the case of the firing of pure "oxyhydrogen" gas (a mixture of hydrogen with exactly half its volume of oxygen, the quantity it combines with in becoming water, German Knall-gas). It becomes less when the "oxyhydrogen" is mixed with excess of one or the other of the two reacting gases, or an inert gas such as nitrogen, because in any such case the same amount of heat spreads over a larger quantity of matter."

A Patent exists for use in diesel engines as a fuel additive http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...number=4573435

[HDi fun]

The other problem with oxyhydrogen is that it is EXTREMELY flammable. You're not even allowed to keep compressed oxygen cylinders in the same room as compressed hydorgen.

Carting the stuff around in a car is lethal. That's why the hydrogen fuel cells are getting a lot of attention.

[Izo Azlion]

Originally Posted by HDi fun

The other problem with oxyhydrogen is that it is EXTREMELY flammable. You're not even allowed to keep compressed oxygen cylinders in the same room as compressed hydorgen.

Carting the stuff around in a car is lethal. That's why the hydrogen fuel cells are getting a lot of attention.

At least when they crash at 80mph, you wouldnt have to brake following them. They'd explode with such a velocity there'd be nothing left to hit, just a black mark on the ground.

[waynne]

The practical thinker, as ever IZO!

The in car kits seem to produce small amounts of the gas on demand so there is a minimal explosion risk - more of a big splash.

[HDi fun]

Is this not a similar approach to supplementing or replacing petrol with LPG?

Can you run compression ingition engines on LPG or CNG?

I like the thought process, Izo - it presumably would also reduce NHS costs. Just imagine what replacing drivers steering wheel airbags with spikes would do? Let the passengers have the normal ones, but fill 'em with pure oxygen to enhance the hydrogen combustion.

Sorry, I'm being silly now.

[Izo Azlion]

Originally Posted by HDi fun

Is this not a similar approach to supplementing or replacing petrol with LPG?

Can you run compression ingition engines on LPG or CNG?

I like the thought process, Izo - it presumably would also reduce NHS costs. Just imagine what replacing drivers steering wheel airbags with spikes would do? Let the passengers have the normal ones, but fill 'em with pure oxygen to enhance the hydrogen combustion.

Sorry, I'm being silly now.

I call that sense. People would learn to drive more. Or, there'd be less on the roads. Either way thats a good thing. Haha.

[blacklineninja]

What about the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva that gets fired up this year! Basically a giant underground Particle Accelerator - could that technology be miniaturised to fit under the bonnet and power cars with atomic energy?

[waynne]

But my cars already got an accelerator

[oceaness]

What has an LHC got to do with atomic power?

I thoguht they used computer controlled magnets to push particles round in oppsite directions at insane speeds eventually smashing them together just to see what happens.

Like when cavemen banged two pieces of flint together and created fire. Scientifically are we going backwards or forwards do you think

[waynne]

Every solution creates another 2 problems

[HDi fun]

The Particle Accelerators aren't particularly efficient to put it mildy. Their purpose is that of research in sub atomic and even sub particle physics. Hopefully one day someone will come up with a means to carry out Nuclear Fusion at sane temperatures and pressures.

Then atomic power for the road would be a reality.

Until then, I'm plodding on with my Kitchen Devils peeler!!