Viewing: Xantia SX HDi 110

**lakanooky2** · 12-02-2011, 09:28 PM

Hi Peeps
I have a Xantia SX HDi 110 and will be installing some series audio mods.One of the big problems is fitting a NSB 90 battery. Looking at the stock location, i need to modify the air box and the 2 pipes that go in between the air box and batt.Also may need to cut slam panel i think it's called, and take the batt tray out to see what depth i have to play with. Can anybody recommend a good air filter replacement or air induction kit thing. Or anyone done these type of mods before.
Thanks In Advance
Mark

***HDi fun*** · 12-02-2011, 10:01 PM

You could of course move the battery to the boot compartment which would entail a couple of decent cable runs to the front but avoid cutting frontal bodywork at the same time.

This will also allow you to run very short 12v and earth cables to your amplifiers.

And still consider remapping your HDi 110. You'll see about 150bhp and torque to make it go in a way that a Xantia HDi shoudn't go.

**lakanooky2** · 12-02-2011, 10:18 PM

Cheers HDi
If i move the batt to the back i go into Street C category... if i make the batt mods i stay in Street B which last year, i was the loudest in the U.K.
The car chassis is only good for 300 amps ish ground and i will be pulling 400 - 500 amps so need to run another 0 gauge to the batt.

Remap is definitely on the cards for the future. but i really need to take that big air box out and replace with ?????? the 2 pipes next to it need to be re routed as well.

***HDi fun*** · 13-02-2011, 12:07 AM

How about a second battery to deliver the current that your ICE amps are likely to draw? A battery is nothing more than a bunch of electrolytic caps anyway. Would the 'judges' allow this?

**lakanooky2** · 13-02-2011, 01:07 AM

Thanks for reply HDi
As far as i know moving the batt to the back, BMW style (will double check with judges) again i move to Street C category.
From what i can remember.
Street A = 1 x amp 1 x sub
Street B = 1 x amp 2 x subs 1 x batt in stock location
Street C = 2x amps 2x subs 1x batt moved or 2 x batts
Need to take that big air box out and replace with ??????

**turbonutter69** · 13-02-2011, 03:29 AM

Is the use of power caps allowed?

**pgarner** · 13-02-2011, 10:57 AM

as for the ????????

pick basically anything thats made for the engine rather than a universal one.
you wont see much difference between any of them dispute what they claim.

Pipercross itg and green

BMC CDA is another idea as you may find that airbox is smaller than the current one

***HDi fun*** · 13-02-2011, 12:18 PM

An engine battery will be better for this use anyway. You're looking for transient load. The other type of battery is a deep cycle battery. These are for caravan use for domestic electricity.

If caps are allowed then I can't see why batteries would be banned.

**turbonutter69** · 13-02-2011, 05:24 PM

Installing a cap is totally different to installing separate battery.

**lakanooky2** · 13-02-2011, 06:27 PM

As for the air filter would one of the below be ok
http://www.green-filter.co.uk/produc...ucts_id=200211
Or anyone know of a cheaper one lol

***HDi fun*** · 13-02-2011, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbonutter69

Installing a cap is totally different to installing separate battery.

In what way?

A car battery is nothing more than a polarised electrolytic capacitor.

Mounting a 12v battery of sufficiently low internal resistance close to the power amps should have the same effect.

**pgarner** · 13-02-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakanooky2

As for the air filter would one of the below be ok
http://www.green-filter.co.uk/produc...ucts_id=200211
Or anyone know of a cheaper one lol

will do fine, just dont look for a massive gain in performance

**turbonutter69** · 13-02-2011, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDi fun

In what way?

A car battery is nothing more than a polarised electrolytic capacitor.

Mounting a 12v battery of sufficiently low internal resistance close to the power amps should have the same effect.

The general way is to install another alternator to keep it charged.
Or use a split charge system but both would cost alot more and require alot more work to install. Thats the reason I'd say they was in a different league.

***HDi fun*** · 14-02-2011, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbonutter69

The general way is to install another alternator to keep it charged.
Or use a split charge system but both would cost alot more and require alot more work to install. Thats the reason I'd say they was in a different league.

Lead acid accumulators are simply devices for storing electrical energy in chemical form. Electrolytic capacitors do exactly this self same thing.

The similarities outweigh the differences.

Both use metallic anodes and cathodes, both will not tolerate polar reversal.

Both use an electrolyte as a medium to store charge.

Both rely upon the dielectric strength of negatively charged ions at the cathode to create a potential difference between anode and cathode.

**turbonutter69** · 14-02-2011, 12:04 AM

I never said there was a difference in what they do.
I'm fully aware of both are capable of.
If you read again properly I was referring to installing them. A power cap requires a few extra cables.
Installing an extra battery require a few bits more than just cable.
Which in turn would be cheaper as well to install a cap.

***HDi fun*** · 14-02-2011, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbonutter69

I never said there was a difference in what they do.
I'm fully aware of both are capable of.
If you read again properly I was referring to installing them. A power cap requires a few extra cables.
Installing an extra battery require a few bits more than just cable.
Which in turn would be cheaper as well to install a cap.

I can, and, I do, indeed, read properly.

I've never had a problem with comprehension of the English language.

**turbonutter69** · 14-02-2011, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDi fun

Lead acid accumulators are simply devices for storing electrical energy in chemical form. Electrolytic capacitors do exactly this self same thing.

The similarities outweigh the differences.

Both use metallic anodes and cathodes, both will not tolerate polar reversal.

Both use an electrolyte as a medium to store charge.

Both rely upon the dielectric strength of negatively charged ions at the cathode to create a potential difference between anode and cathode.

So why reply with this then?
I said nothing about what they do or how they work?

***HDi fun*** · 14-02-2011, 01:15 PM

Just to illustrate why, and explain the rationale, I made in my previous statement.

What did you expect me to say?

Nor did I say or imply that you had made reference to how they work.

**lakanooky2** · 15-02-2011, 07:06 PM

Thanks for advice so far guys.
Cap vs Batt
The powercap empties in seconds then has to refill from somewhere,
whilst its refilling that, power is being taken from what could of gone to the amps.
A cap will discharge faster than a battery. A cap will only work if the source power is big enough and may help light dimming. That's why you do not see them in big installs. They have the discharge current but.... when they need to be charged up again and you have bass heavy music the cap will discharge then the cap becomes a load on the system. then the amps will be starved of power.
I have never had a cap (only at school) and never will.
Caps are easier to install and look nice but still NO.
The battery im trying to install, the NSB 90, is one of the best AGM battery's in the world,an odyssey PC2150T batt is very similar but bigger hence the mods to my air box/filter.

***HDi fun*** · 15-02-2011, 07:18 PM

So would you be penalised for using two batteries? You could use a remote battery in the back and fit a large capacitor as well because these probably do have a slightly better transient response under sudden discharge demand.

Anyway, all switched mode PSUs rely upon large capacitors just as much as linear mode PSUs do. Switched mode PSU's avoid the large inductors (transformers) which linear mode supplies require.

**turbonutter69** · 15-02-2011, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakanooky2

Thanks for advice so far guys.
Cap vs Batt
The powercap empties in seconds then has to refill from somewhere,
whilst its refilling that, power is being taken from what could of gone to the amps.
A cap will discharge faster than a battery. A cap will only work if the source power is big enough and may help light dimming. That's why you do not see them in big installs. They have the discharge current but.... when they need to be charged up again and you have bass heavy music the cap will discharge then the cap becomes a load on the system. then the amps will be starved of power.
I have never had a cap (only at school) and never will.
Caps are easier to install and look nice but still NO.
The battery im trying to install, the NSB 90, is one of the best AGM battery's in the world,an odyssey PC2150T batt is very similar but bigger hence the mods to my air box/filter.

How can you say this?
Power caps play a big part in big installs. Loads and loads of people use them?

***herb*** · 15-02-2011, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbonutter69

How can you say this?
Power caps play a big part in big installs. Loads and loads of people use them?

Sorry mate but they dont! They may be there for show but thats it!
I was talking to ian pinder (iceman) at pvs a while ago and he told me caps are useless on big installs

***HDi fun*** · 15-02-2011, 07:41 PM

We're in danger of over-generalising here. Large capacitors do have a purpose but alone they're not a substitute for quality wiring and quality PSUs within power amplifiers.

A top end power amplifier will have more than adequate provision within its internal PSU to accomodate any demand put upon it. Provided, of course, that the rest of the car's electrical system can support such loads.

**lakanooky2** · 16-02-2011, 02:01 AM

Don't get me wrong guy's caps do have a purpose but only in small installs.The one im planning on, is going to be 5,000 watts.The reason Ian (iceman) Pinder doesn't use them is, his is really big, bigger than mine.
All the guy's below don't use caps, just good wiring and good PSU's.
1. thejoose (Project Big Black) 156.8dB average 8 12" nuclears, 16000rms flat wall
2. liam_b 151.5dB average 8 12" Radioactives, 4400rms walled tunnel
3. yogi bear 151.2dB average 2 18" Plutoniums, 6400rms flat wall
So with no caps in mind im stuck with a decision
1. Try to install the new batt in stock location = Street B
2. Install 2 x batt's same kit but move up to Street C
Rules have to be adhered to or you move up or down a class

**jarrus** · 17-02-2011, 09:10 PM

If that's the case then it's easy enough to use a different air box.

On my Peugeot 306 the air box is located very low in the engine bay and it's of very good size and design and it's out of the way of the battery, maybe a rumage in a scrap yard for a an air box and some of the pipe work from a late model 306 1.9 TD would do the trick.

as for the battery tray, underneath that you only find an engine/gearbox mount so there's no point in removing it as there will be no extra space.