Viewing: remap torque figures

**MasterAuron** · 29-04-2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yugguy

I used to be a petrol only bloke until I got a remapped diesel. Now I've got a car that feels like it can pull a freight train and does 50mpg.

Interestingly, Alfa's 159 with the 2.2 petrol is no quicker 0-60 than with the 150bhp 1.9 JTD engine, and the diesel has way more torque for midrange and much better mpg.

Go figure.

What you conveniently forgot to mention though is that the diesel has a turbo, and the petrol car does not. If all these tractors you have didn't have turbochargers, you wouldn't be driving round in them because they'd be unbearable. Go figure

***HDi fun*** · 29-04-2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterAuron

What you conveniently forgot to mention though is that the diesel has a turbo, and the petrol car does not. If all these tractors you have didn't have turbochargers, you wouldn't be driving round in them because they'd be unbearable. Go figure

I completely agree that diesels without turbos are basically unpleasant. I wouldn't drive one for exactly that reason.

**turbonutter69** · 29-04-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterAuron

What you conveniently forgot to mention though is that the diesel has a turbo, and the petrol car does not. If all these tractors you have didn't have turbochargers, you wouldn't be driving round in them because they'd be unbearable. Go figure

At last someone on my wave length.

***HDi fun*** · 29-04-2009, 06:30 PM

I'm still struggling to see the point you're trying to convey. I agree that a naturally aspirated diesel is not exactly desirable. Which is why I don't drive one.

Diesel engines really to lend themselves to turbocharging by virtue of having no throttle as such.

***HDi fun*** · 29-04-2009, 06:30 PM

I'm still struggling to see the point you're trying to convey. I agree that a naturally aspirated diesel is not exactly desirable. Which is why I don't drive one.

Diesel engines really to lend themselves to turbocharging by virtue of having no throttle as such.

**MasterAuron** · 29-04-2009, 07:00 PM

The point I'm trying to make is that you can't fairly compare a turbo diesel to a non-turbo petrol and say it's quicker. No sh*t. In terms of performance, with exactly the same capacity and induction method, petrol wins every time. What are you struggling to see about that?

***HDi fun*** · 29-04-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterAuron

The point I'm trying to make is that you can't fairly compare a turbo diesel to a non-turbo petrol and say it's quicker. No sh*t. In terms of performance, with exactly the same capacity and induction method, petrol wins every time. What are you struggling to see about that?

I have no problem with petrol cars whatsoever. I used to detest diesels without exception. I still dislike quite a lot of 'em.

What I don't understand is why more manufacturers don't do as Saab, Volvo, and VW Group do with their petrol engines and use forced induction liberally across the range.

I had the misfortune to drive a new Vectra SRi (140bhp 1.8 petrol) last year for a week or two. Horrid - slow, loud, spineless. Had GM seen fit to turbocharge it to get some decent torque from the thing I would probably have reported very differently.

**MasterAuron** · 29-04-2009, 07:39 PM

But it's not all about torque. The old sayings about torque are far too over-used. Just look at Honda's engines and cars; torqueless wonders but they make some rapid N/A cars.

Look how quick (ish) some of the old N/A vauxhalls are though, that Vectra was slow because it was heavy, like most new cars. That engine in a Nova though would be no slouch. You don't need boatloads of torque if you're pulling 900kgs.

I have no problems with modern turbo diesels either btw.

***HDi fun*** · 29-04-2009, 07:57 PM

The Vectra is about 1300kg. My car is 1510kg - remarkable for a company that used to make lightweight flimsy things! It does have a hell of a lot of equipment; electric seats, for example, are very heavy. And it's laden with vibration damping measures and sound deadening materials.

I am too large of stature and build to drive about in a compact hatchback. OK, if I'm honest, I'm too old as well

Getting in should be OK, though I pity the poor sod who has to sit behind me. Getting out could be a challenge!!

I do think it comes down to personal choice as to how you wish to drive.

You can no longer buy a diesel purely for economy as the servicing costs and fuel cost per litre does mount up. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy one. The refinement and performance really has made massive progress with the advent of ultra high pressure injection systems.

You also can't just choose petrol for performance anymore unless there is a good, as you and I say, turbocharged variant available.

Honda is a good example of how to do petrol (although the i-CDTi engines are pleasant) properly. The 212bhp VTEC 2.2 is a belter. Frantic and revvy and fun in a very non-diesel way.

The sheer midrange shove of a good diesel is fun as well though. Sticking your toe down a bit at 2000rpm in 4th gear and getting flung into the seat has an appeal as well.

**Yugguy** · 30-04-2009, 01:15 PM

I've had a revvy, fast car - a Clio 172, very quick, great fun to drive, BUT, nothing happened until 4200 rpm - after that the scream to the redline was addictive. Great car IMO.

Trouble is though if you're caught in the wrong gear, or just can't be bothered to have to rev the nuts off it to go anywhere, it can get a little tiring.

Diesels these days are getting great BHP as well as the torque, while still keeping the great mpg - check out BMW's 123d specs:

204 bhp, 295lb ft, 0-62:7.0s, 148mph top speed, 54.7mpg.

It's said by reviewers that it's a quiet engine too. Crucially though, their use of multiple turbos is getting rid of the last drawback of a diesel - lag.

And it's very likely a few hundred quid on a chip will make it even more potent.

Don't get me wrong, I love the feel and sound of big petrol engines, but I'd need a 4.0V8 to get me the same torque as I have now, and that'd give me 20mpg and not the 50 I get now. I can't afford to do my 20k miles a year at 20mpg.

***HDi fun*** · 30-04-2009, 05:38 PM

I would avoid the chip route and get it remapped properly.

**turbonutter69** · 30-04-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yugguy

I've had a revvy, fast car - a Clio 172, very quick, great fun to drive, BUT, nothing happened until 4200 rpm - after that the scream to the redline was addictive. Great car IMO.

Trouble is though if you're caught in the wrong gear, or just can't be bothered to have to rev the nuts off it to go anywhere, it can get a little tiring.

Diesels these days are getting great BHP as well as the torque, while still keeping the great mpg - check out BMW's 123d specs:

204 bhp, 295lb ft, 0-62:7.0s, 148mph top speed, 54.7mpg.

It's said by reviewers that it's a quiet engine too. Crucially though, their use of multiple turbos is getting rid of the last drawback of a diesel - lag.

And it's very likely a few hundred quid on a chip will make it even more potent.

Don't get me wrong, I love the feel and sound of big petrol engines, but I'd need a 4.0V8 to get me the same torque as I have now, and that'd give me 20mpg and not the 50 I get now. I can't afford to do my 20k miles a year at 20mpg.

My sister has a Clio 182 and that is absolutely rapid. Dump your foot in any gear and it goes like stink. You tell me any 2 litre non turbo, diesel that will keep up?

**MasterAuron** · 30-04-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbonutter69

My sister has a Clio 182 and that is absolutely rapid. Dump your foot in any gear and it goes like stink. You tell me any 2 litre non turbo, diesel that will keep up?

Not one. 172 and 182 are rapid and the Cups are RAW! You cna pick them up for £4.5kish now in decent nick as well! I don't like the look of that shape Clio though.

**turbonutter69** · 30-04-2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterAuron

Not one. 172 and 182 are rapid and the Cups are RAW! You cna pick them up for £4.5kish now in decent nick as well! I don't like the look of that shape Clio though.

My sisters is the RenaultSport Cup version. Cocks a back wheel in tight corners. Loads of fun. There ain't no 2 litre diesel that can bring that sort of smile across your face. (non turbo that is).

**Yugguy** · 01-05-2009, 09:00 AM

It's a little pointless to discuss n/a diesels. So few diesel engines are n/a, and only a small number of petrols are forced induction.

**turbonutter69** · 01-05-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yugguy

It's a little pointless to discuss n/a diesels. So few diesel engines are n/a, and only a small number of petrols are forced induction.

Thats my point. There isn't really any basis for comparison.

kohn · 13-08-2009, 07:28 PM

Guys!
I want someone who can remap my Saab 9-5 2.2 TID 03!
Cheers,
Daniel
07726855715
kohnda@msn.com