Mk4 Golf 1.9L GT TDi 150BHP - ECU Remap

[Jonny1001]

Hi,

I have a Mk4 Golf 1.9L GT TDi 150BHP that I'm looking to have remapped.

Was wondering what kind of performance gains I could expect to see from a stage 1 remap?

Any comments greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

J.

[HDi fun]

Celtic tuning claim 205bhp and about 320lbft. I have no reason to doubt their claims - the results are impressive to save the least.

It'll metaphorically fly.

[Jonny1001]

It would be rapid to say the least!

Any idea how much I could expect to pay for that?

[HDi fun]

Celtic charged me a straight three hundred quid. That was Easter 2006. Have a look on their web site and give 'em a call.

Graham and Tony and very knowledgeable operators and come with a full recommendation from me. In fact. I think Torquecars has an arrangement with Celtic so you might get a discount.

http://www.celtictuning.co.uk/Car%20Tuning/

Cheers,

Regards,

Paul.

[Jonny1001]

Cheers Paul.

What exactly did you get for your £300? What you driving?

Thanks.

Jonny.

[HDi fun]

A Peugeot 406 2.2 HDi. It's the 16 valve common rail diesel. Factory tune is 136bhp and 235 lbft.

They raised fuel pressure earlier in the rev range (but never exceeding 1300bar which is factory max). I'm not sure if the PD engines can be altered for this but the pressures the PD system creates are probably even higher than mine anyway.

They also will increase peak boost pressure and overboost.

From memory:

0.8 bar standard to 1.0 bar standard

1.1 bar overboost to 1.3 bar overboost

Fuel timing and volume is increased to give more torque as revs increase.

The boost comes in much sooner than standard with useable torque from as low as 1300rpm. The power delivery is much more linear in remapped tune and doesn't start to roll off until over 4300rpm. Red line in my car is at a pointless 5300rpm. There's no need to rev it that hard.

Celtic quoted 178bhp and 305lbft. Running on BP Ultimate Diesel, and on a very cold day in 2007 I had it dyno tested up here and recorded 192bhp with 328lbft.

It's also smoother to drive even though the 2.2 HDi is a pretty silky engine anyway. Economy improved slighty. Clearly if you use all the power all the time then you're going to burn more. I've had no reliability issues and the car is now at 126,000 miles, the remap was done at 55,000 miles.

You must, however, keep your servicing current, use quality oils and let it cool down at idle after a hard run.

Performance wise is thus:

0-62 (without savaging it) - 7.6 seconds

30-60 (3rd gear) - 4.4 seconds so you've truly got the midrange overtaking muscle of a decent 2 door sports car (and I don't mean a 1.4 Puma, by the way!!!)

You'll like it, trust me.

Consider as well that the 406 is a heavy car, mine especially so as it's got all the electric seat motors etc. In my opinion it's bloody good value for three humdred quid.

I wouldn't hesitate to use Celtic when I change my car. It's a good case for sticking with derv in my opinion.

[Jonny1001]

Thanks a lot for that comprehensive run down!

Couple of questions:

1) How noticeable was the change in fuel enconomy (assuming you don't rag it the whole time)?

2) How often would you recommend servicing? Every 6 months or so?

3) How long should you let it idle for after a heavy blast?

Cheers,

Jonny.

[HDi fun]

1. Fuel economy actually improved. Before remap the trip comp gave an average of 36.2 mpg over 5000 miles. Since remap I get 39.8. I don't drive it economically especially. I'm a purposeful and considerate driver, so if there's a chance to go, then I'll sieze it. And you get lots of chances with that much torque!!!

2. I service mine very 12,000 miles as per standard!!! To be honest, if you were to get an oil sample taken at the required interval you might well get away with leaving it longer! I use fully synthetic AMSOIL 5w/40 diesel specific engine oil. Check with VW here - I have an idea that the PD engines are recommended to use a semi or blended oil. I cannot see why a full synthetic should not be used. Apparently it's to do with the way the PD injectors work. I suspect that this is no longer a problem and that current API CJ-4 oils will be fine. Let's face it, the TDi PD engines are very common across the world and I cannot see makers such as AMSOIL throwing away the opportunity to market suitable oils.

I, too, will do some research on your behalf, if you'd like me to do so. Chas Stafford and Don Miles of Performance Oils Limited are very knowledgeable and honest.

3. Also, don't twat it stone cold - let the oil warm up a bit before you work it too hard.

As for cooling off, I've never had to spend more than 2-3 minutes even in the hottest of summer weather. Basically, if you lay off the pedal 2-3 miles from home then 30 seconds should suffice. I have a factory std oil temp gauge and it's a good guide. Might be worth fitting one if your car doesn't have one. Synthetics do help here so if you can find a suitable one then use it. They're much more thermally stable than mineral or blended oils.

I'm straining to find the negatives. Err, it's, err, faster, more economical, servicing is the same.

Just make sure your insurer is happy that you do this and watch your pace on A roads.

[Jonny1001]

Wow, thanks again for all that. Very helpful.

Some research would be very useful. That would be great if you don't mind?

This will sound stupid, but I don't quite understand how the oil makes such a difference?

Cheers,

J.

[HDi fun]

As far as PD goes it's to do with extreme pressure additives.

Leave it with me and I'll compose a readable essay.

Cheers,

P.

[Jonny1001]

Ah right.

Cool, thanks a lot mate. Much appreciated.

J.

[HDi fun]

Just for interest - here's the car. Boring, isn't it? Standard looks.


http://www.torquecars.com/forums/vbi...yimg&imgid=404

[sr performance]

Hi jonny,
evolutionchips remap will give 45bhp and 90nm more torque with the benefit of better mpg, so you can have your cake and eat it..
and a lifetime warranty on the map itself.

steve

[Yugguy]

I've had a remap on my 130 PD engine, from 130bhp 228lbft to 170/290 - it could have been 190/290 but my engine's done 105k so the tuner recommended the slightly milder map. Turbo comes in a little earlier and last a little longer, so you don't have to rag the engine as much and can hang on to a gear a little longer, so my average mpg has gone from 47 to 50. My work journey is a town each end and a cross country cruise in between. Midrange the car is pretty swift.

Does the 150 have the same clutch, cos if so it's only rated to 200lbft, but I have heard of 150s with uprated clutches running 220/230 bhp and mid 300s torque. The engine itself is supposed to be very strong, but I think for any more gains than that you're looking at better turbos and intercoolers.

I would definitely recommend a remap, just stay within the tolerances of your car and you should be fine, but as HDI says above, make sure you service it proper.

Cheers

[Yugguy]

Oh and, there are fully synths now that are certified by VW and meet their standards.

If you go for a remap I'd recommend coming off variable servicing and going fixed. TBH I change my oil every 5k, just to be sure.

[pgarner]

150 clutch if the same as the 130. rated to 300 ftlb

[Jonny1001]

So do you reckon I'd be alright not replacing the clutch if I'm dealing with up to 318ftlb??

Changing oil every 5k sounds like a good shout. How much would I be looking at for an oil change?

Sorry to sound so thick, but I just simply don't know about this stuff yet.....that said I'm learning quickly!

Cheers.

[sr performance]

Hiya mate,
std clutch will be fine, a remap gives your clutch an easier time as it smooth's the power delivery out so your making the clutch work harder. and dont believe over inflated power increases, they do this to sell.. but they dont deliver..
your engine is limited to what fuel/pressure etc, it can deliver without upgrading parts..


steve


www.sr-performance.co.uk

[HDi fun]

There's no need for 5k oil changes if you're using a quality synthetic oil.

[pgarner]

Originally Posted by Jonny1001

So do you reckon I'd be alright not replacing the clutch if I'm dealing with up to 318ftlb??

Changing oil every 5k sounds like a good shout. How much would I be looking at for an oil change?

Sorry to sound so thick, but I just simply don't know about this stuff yet.....that said I'm learning quickly!

Cheers.

should be alright as long as the power delivery comes in smoothly. for example custom code map is just like driving an OEM car with the way the power comes in.
where as another well know remapping company within the VAG community will spike the boost earlier to make the car feel more powerful. this is what id be wary of. and both maps give roughly the same figures both of which can be backed up by dynos.

custom code have had an offer on for some time. think a generic map is £305 at a garage or £340 from the mobile tuners.
this is who im going with when i get round to it after having a go in a mate skoda octavia VRS mapped by them - cars around 85-90% the same as the bora, engine is 100% the same

[pgarner]

as said by Yugguy different maps are avalible by the same mapper.
ie 170bhp simpathic map
190 normal map
210 race map - this is possible the best it will get before the turbo wants to give up.

most maps however show around 190-205 at the flywheel

[Yugguy]

Originally Posted by HDi fun

There's no need for 5k oil changes if you're using a quality synthetic oil.

I'd agree with you for petrol engines but I think diesels put so much crap into the oil it's worth it for the 40 quid it costs.

[HDi fun]

Diesel specific oils should stand up to this crap. I agree though, you can NEVER change it too often.

But the AMSOIL I use is sixty quid for five litres so I have to get some payback

[pipper]

hi got gt tdi 150 anyone addvise on what s s exaust i can put on thanks mark

[HDi fun]

Originally Posted by pipper

hi got gt tdi 150 anyone addvise on what s s exaust i can put on thanks mark

Why do you want to change the exhaust? The PD150 models are pretty free flowing anyway.