Viewing: Can you/ is it worth upgrading diesel turbos?

**Reubiedoo** · 22-04-2010, 06:14 PM

Are the gains significant?

And do you have to uprate other internals to support it?

Thanks guys.

**pgarner** · 22-04-2010, 06:16 PM

depends on if its been made in the last approx 10 years.
as long as its common rail then recent gains can be had.
internals will need to be uprated in the same way as petrol and is dependant on the engine

what car are you looking at ?

***HDi fun*** · 22-04-2010, 07:35 PM

Mine went from 235lbft to 328lbft with a remap alone.

To quote PG, what car are you considering tuning?

**Reubiedoo** · 22-04-2010, 07:44 PM

Nothing yet.

I have been looking at trying to get a petrol (1.8t VW version probably) to run as a family car and tune. I have decided that it may be more prudent to just get a family car and 'something for the weekend' to really go to town on - i.e. strip out etc. Was thinking of 300ZX or CTS-V if I have the cash. 300C Hemi if I decide I will put N2O in it cos then it won't matter it can't handle.

But if I get a 1.8t or similar I will spend k's on improving performance etc that I could spend on a proper project. So I was just looking into diesels. If I am going to get a family car I might as well go the whole hog - but that doesn't mean I can't tune it.

Was thinking of an estate (again - whole hog) possibly mondeo, but prefferably Passat/ octavia/ A4/ A6. That said I had a megane 1.9tD that went like poo off a shovel. Easily did more than 1.5 seconds under official 0-60 and 140 mph nowhere near pushing it. so would consider French.

Priorities:
1. Reliability
2. Potential power gains
3. Performance and Handling
4. Spec
5. Comfort

**pgarner** · 22-04-2010, 07:57 PM

i would, yes bias of me, say the VAG PD engines are extermly good although getting a little older now and can be taken to decent levels for not that much outlay. 260bhp enough for you and think the torque could be around 370-400 when finished thats still running a OEM Audi garrett turbo abet off the 3.0 tdi

***HDi fun*** · 22-04-2010, 07:58 PM

Current Mondeo TDCi 2.2 will tune to over 200bhp with £300 or so remap.

VW's 1.8T 20 valve petrol is a brilliantly versatile engine. 'Apparently' prone to sludge problems but nothing that some purposeful driving won't minimise. These can be tuned by ECU remapping as well. It won't cost thousands.

Common rail diesels, particularly those with decent performance figures a standard will offer sensational midrange shove with a remap and still give 40+ mpg. It'll make your Megane feel completely spineless in comparison.

At this point I'd go for a Ford, I think.

Are you planning to buy new or second user?

**Reubiedoo** · 22-04-2010, 08:11 PM

@ pgarner: where do you find VAG PDs? Sounds awesome.

@ HDI fun: Used, unless I can eke my GTi's life out for 2.5 years - then I will be doing a job that will allow new. But probably be nearly-new at best; savings over kudos.

How recently did they introduce that engine?

Thanks guys.

**pgarner** · 22-04-2010, 08:14 PM

Hdi the sludge is only really present in the longitudinal 1.8 (a4,6 and passat) and its more to do with poor oil quality outside of spec

1.9PD engines are found throughout the VAG range for example the 130 is in the Fabia VRs. the 150bhp engines were only n the Golf / Bora and seat leon

**Reubiedoo** · 22-04-2010, 08:15 PM

I realise it is a VW group lump I just don't know how to identify the models. Will type it in to google now.

Edit: tried to put this as an edit to earlier post but you got there first!

***HDi fun*** · 22-04-2010, 08:19 PM

Ford introduced the 2.2 TDCi in 2004 initially. At that point it was rated at 155bhp. The later one (09 onwards) was a twin turbo effort and offered over 170bhp standard.

Both will go to over 200bhp and well over 300lbft.

VAG has mostly withdrawn the PD engines now and replaced with Common Rail ones. The PDs can be a bit rough, especially the 4 cylinder ones. And they hammer camshaft belts apparently. But they, too, are very tuneable.

I'm staggered that I'm recommending Ford. I never thought it would happen. Ever. But the range now is so well honed it's hard not to consider them.

**pgarner** · 22-04-2010, 08:21 PM

sorry theres too many engine codes to get in
basically is the sticker in the boot says 110 or 96kw then its the 150 or 130PD engine codes are ARL for the 150 and ASZ for the 130

the 115PD is common and is normally ATD coded

***HDi fun*** · 22-04-2010, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgarner

Hdi the sludge is only really present in the longitudinal 1.8 (a4,6 and passat) and its more to do with poor oil quality outside of spec

1.9PD engines are found throughout the VAG range for example the 130 is in the Fabia VRs. the 150bhp engines were only n the Golf / Bora and seat leon

I agree PG. Oil quality is essential in all modern engines. Too many people get outside of warranty and then fill with some dubious Castrol Magnetec stuff.

**Reubiedoo** · 22-04-2010, 08:45 PM

Spot on guys thanks.

I like the styling of the 2.2 mondeo.

Apart from getting hold of the audi turbo and fitting it, what other work would I need to do do you think to have a reliable unit with the PD?

***HDi fun*** · 22-04-2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reubiedoo

Spot on guys thanks.

I like the styling of the 2.2 mondeo.

Apart from getting hold of the audi turbo and fitting it, what other work would I need to do do you think to have a reliable unit with the PD?

What are you planning fit? I'm a little lost

The PD engines are very reliable by all accounts, I'm just not a fan personally. But their merits are genuine.

**Reubiedoo** · 22-04-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgarner

260bhp enough for you and think the torque could be around 370-400 when finished thats still running a OEM Audi garrett turbo abet off the 3.0 tdi

Did I misunderstand?

**pgarner** · 22-04-2010, 09:55 PM

you need
turbo, - all pipework associated
better intercooler
and custom mapping

have a look here at a midway rebuild of the 1.9 ARL engine thats getting this work done to it. guy is looking for a reliable 260

**Reubiedoo** · 23-04-2010, 01:46 PM

HDI fun:

Do you know where you can get those figures you have for the Mondeo?

Celtic tuning quote 197BHP and 315lb/ft and not found better elsewhere. Would be a shame, as I like the mondeos look and my dads was nice to drive.

***HDi fun*** · 23-04-2010, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reubiedoo

HDI fun:

Do you know where you can get those figures you have for the Mondeo?

Celtic tuning quote 197BHP and 315lb/ft and not found better elsewhere. Would be a shame, as I like the mondeos look and my dads was nice to drive.

My figures were based upon memory of Celtic's site. I was a little on the conservative side;

Celtic currently quotes 210bhp and 359lbft for the 07 onwards Mondeo 2.2 TDCi 172

**Reubiedoo** · 23-04-2010, 09:11 PM

Ah I see - I entered the 05-07 version.

Thanks bud!

**Reubiedoo** · 23-04-2010, 09:12 PM

Can't +rep you guys at the mo. Will spread some love.

**jarrus** · 28-04-2010, 07:58 PM

Yeah the vag pd systems are brilliant due to the fact they run mega high fuel pressures when the common rails of the time couldn't be like all things times are a changing, common rail will be the future for diesels,
the engines are brilliant, but I can't really say the same for the cars as a whole though, not from a reliability (as they are very good) i'm talking about driver enjoyment, I don't think VAG cars are great for that unless you want the new TT or an R8, I think that most of the range of cars and mainly geared towards people who don't like driving, there just far too "german"
I'd go for a mondeo with a 2.2 tdci in it, I haven't driven one with a 2.2 but the 2.0 i drove was really nice, couldn't fault it at all, also LPG is a great way of adding power to any turbo diesel

***HDi fun*** · 28-04-2010, 09:15 PM

The 2.2 Mondeo is very lively in 155bhp form.

VAG's PD engines are savage on camshaft belts. Some recommend 18,000 mile replacement.

**jarrus** · 28-04-2010, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDi fun

VAG's PD engines are savage on camshaft belts. Some recommend 18,000 mile replacement.

I would imagine so, the PD engine seem to produce more torque than there equivalent from other manufactures:
Skoda Fabia VRS 130 bhp 220lbft

Fait Grande Punto Sporting Multijet 130 130 bhp 205lbft

so yes I can see on highly tuned one's then cam belt changes would be required with a normal full service

just think what the BTCC Seat leon was doing to it's internals and drivetrain then, that had just shy of 280 bhp so it's got to be well over 420 lbft as well

***HDi fun*** · 29-04-2010, 09:50 AM

It's not the torque output that loads up the camshaft belt. It does not form part of the drive train.

It's the load that the PD injectors put upon it, being directly driven by the camshaft.

My 406 had a twin cam engine, delivered 235lbft in stock tune and over 320lbft with a remap but the cambelt change interval on that was every 96,000 miles. That had a cambelt driven high pressure fuel pump but it only presented a constant load, not the twice per revolution torque reversal that the PDs presented.

**jarrus** · 29-04-2010, 11:12 PM

Fair enough then, I stand corrected,
Mine require a change every 36,000 miles so I guess that would suggest then there is quite a strain on there as well?