Help me understand car audio

[Reubiedoo]

Hi guys.

As I have detailed in another thread, I am looking to install some quality sound in my car.

Trouble is, there is information overload out there, and a lot of objective answers.

I understand that different size speakers deal with different frequencies, but there on in I am getting mugged in the head.

For example I read about a sub's crossover network. I presume it channels higher notes elsewhere. Do all subs have these? Do they need configuring?

And 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 channel amps!? Does that mean they feed speakers seperately?

I can't even guess at equalisers and processors.

I may seem very ignorant to you, so please go easy on me - I have never looked into electric before.


I was hoping to find a store or garage that would be able to design/fit a system based on my needs, but the ones I have been to seem to just push what they need to sell. ( I had one guy trying to sell me a sub which was £50 which he said was the best they had. Never heard of the make, but it never comes up in searches.)

I don't need it to be loud, so don't know if I need an amp or just a good head unit. And I will probably play a lot of stuff from an MP3 link which isn't fantastic format for music as it trims the depth of sound, so it doesn't need to be world beating.

Can anyone give me a five minute crash course/ guide to selecting appropriate gear? Or hook me up to an honest professional?

I just want a good range of sound with no distortion. Will pay up to c.£500 for kit only, but if I can get a top system for less I dn't see the point in spending for the sake of it.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

Reu

[pgarner]

Sub dont really need a cross over but require a loss pass filter from the amp as you dont want to really put more tha 150Hz through it as you risk damage to the voice coil

cross overs are more for the treble of the speakers


Channels on Amps is how many speakers it can handle
mono - really for subs
2 channel - 2 speakers or 1 sub if it can handle running bridged
4channel - 2 speakers from 2 inputs ie 2 front and back, 2speakers and a sub if again it can handle bridged

[wolfmankurd]

All I can say it be weary of any figures they give you on the spec like 500w RMS, peak music power, peak power. They rarely reflect what you think they should.

All I can suggest is try before you buy, and reviews are worth while reads. You might need a cap especially if you're a fan of depth of sound. But make sure the cap is there for the right reasons and not cause you simply bought above your car's power supply capabilities.

[Reubiedoo]

Thanks guys. Have read lots of reviews but all seem much of a muchness.

Are loss pass filters seperate items or included in some subs?

Do the other speakers not require amplification, or is it a case of limited ability/ cash etc? i.e. are you amping the sub because it needs it most, or because the other components don't need it?

Cap? does that limit the power delivered to the components to protect them? Do you need 1 per component?

Thanks guys.

[pgarner]

low pass fiters are generally intergrated into the amp

speakers need amplification but dont nessessary require an additioal amp - the head unit will be enough for most.require a fair whack to get them moving

subs need amp as they
Power caps are only really needed if your running big setups, even then a second battery can be a cheaper way of doing this - must be gel based for inside the car.

[HDi fun]

Crossovers also have different attenuation rates.

[Reubiedoo]

Thanks all!

[wolfmankurd]

Capacitors (caps) store some power from the battery so when the amp needs a spike power it can supply it (where as the battery may not be able to meet the needs of all the electronics) as cool as your headlights dancing to the music's beat may be .

I'd have to somewhat disagree with pgarner on the need for a cap. The reason you should use a cap isn't to supply extra power ( a battery will definately be better for this) but because it can provide power faster. Your amp only needs a short spike of power for that short spike in the music (by short I mean of the order of milliseconds) by the time the battery gets to work the spike is over.

But again it's all subjective, you'd have to listen to a setup with and without caps to see if you want one.

[pgarner]

sorry but i never said use a cap for more power i said for big setups. if your struggleing to run a 500w amp with the lights dimming really you should be checking the alternator/ fitting a bigger one or battery. as for 2k watt setups how often are they up this high ?
and what is a power cap ? its a way of storing the current ie like a battery. putting a second one, in parallel to the main one, a short distance from the amps and youll find that it can supply the current just as quick

[Loz]

Originally Posted by wolfmankurd

All I can say it be weary of any figures they give you on the spec like 500w RMS, peak music power, peak power. They rarely reflect what you think they should.

All I can suggest is try before you buy, and reviews are worth while reads. You might need a cap especially if you're a fan of depth of sound. But make sure the cap is there for the right reasons and not cause you simply bought above your car's power supply capabilities.

To clarify, RMS is the figure your looking for & is generally the lower of the two figures normally quoted on a speaker.
PMPO is usually the larger figure you see, for example a sub woofer that claims 1200w will only be able to sustain this for a very short time.
You'll find the same thing applied to amps as well.

http://www.torquecars.com/ice/

[wolfmankurd]

Amp's have capactiors inside them for this very reason, adding an extra one is simply extending this.

To clarify, audio capacitors have very low ESR which is like internal resisiatnce of a battery, because it doesn't contribute much resisitance to the circuit it's supply it can provide more current.

Whether this theory translate's to better sounding audio for you idk, you'd have to try and see. I can't tell the difference between a 128kps mp3 and 320( or even real life).

[HDi fun]

Capacitors (electrolytic capacitors) and batteries are exactly the same devices electrically.

[wolfmankurd]

They actually react quiet differently in circuits. Also the capacitor is usually quiet close to the amp.

[turbonutter69]

I've kept my gob shut on this one but now I have to open it.
A Power Cap will only be needed if your planning on running some serious bass. If your just gonna upgrade the standard speakers then don't bother with one.
Adding a seperate battery is an ok option but you'll get more or less the same probs unless you run a cap with it.
Also one point to remember is if you are planning on a serious install then you'll need 1 Farad per 1000 watts of RMS power.

Reu will you be wanting a sub and amp in your install?
If not I would suggest that you upgrade your head unit and upgrade all the speakers in the car and then go from there.

[Reubiedoo]

Yeah sub and amp preferably. I may just end up buying an infinity or JL kit.

[wolfmankurd]

I'd be tempted to hook up a cheap (£5) audio grade capacitor, I've yet to see a power cap that lists it's ESL and ESR so whats the worst that can happen? (well the worse is the cap explodes). I don't really see why 1F 12v capacitor should cost more than 5F 63v cap just cause the manufacturer claims they are high quaility.

Someone might be able to give some input into this. But I can't image the branded ones would offer better performance than a bank of cheap ones.

[Loz]

Guys,
I think we're getting caught up in the details here, lets leave the subject of power caps alone for a minute (that's an order) & concentrate on Reu's basic requirements,

1, A set up the leans towards quality rather than volume.

2, It must play MP3 music, be it SD cards, MP3 players or even on CD.

3, Cost no more than £500 inc' tools, parts & fitting.
With this in mind I would suggest leaving amps out the equation & concentrate on quality core components.

4, What wiring is required & how to go about it.

The poor guy is already confused & we're not helping at the moment, so lets try and answer the questions at the start of thread first.

Thanks,

Loz.

[Loz]

Here's my set up as an example, I have...

Head unit: Blaupunkt Brisbane SD48, it has no CD mechanism only an SD card slot & is 4x18w rms.

Speakers: 4x Blaupunkt IC4600. Self contained units with a tweeter & mid range speaker in each, 50w rms

Sub: Blaupunkt THb200A active subwoofer, 70w rms.

Not the sexiest combination I know!
My car has a stripped out interior & combined with the exhaust is quite a noisy place to be at motorway speeds! The set up above can easily be heard above this racket & the clarity is great too, the sub isn't going to set off car alarms but adds enough weight to the music & I listen from everything from The Broken Family Band to Showtek & Soil! I chose the funny looking speakers because being self contained they don't require screwing into non existant interior panels .
All the speakers are wired using OFC cables bought from a home HiFi dealer because is wire was cheaper than the car places & just as good.

The whole lot including iso adapters cables & fuses cost me about £450

In your car I'd upgrade the head unit, swap the standard speakers with new ones of same size using maybe Blaupunkts Velocity range, that way you don't have to hack great holes in your car interior & lob a decent active sub in the boot. If your keen you could always fit a set of component speakers in the front (that's a mid range speaker & tweeter supplied with their own x-over ) but you will need to choose where you mount the tweeter very carefully, to get the best effect.

[herb]

Originally Posted by Loz

Guys,
I think we're getting caught up in the details here, lets leave the subject of power caps alone for a minute (that's an order) & concentrate on Reu's basic requirements,

well i rebel against authority so
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[Loz]

Ha!

[pgarner]

Ok listening to the Boss

have you changed your headunit ?

getting a amp and sub package will probably be a good idea for you as its only 3 wires and the 2 rca cables from the headunit. the sub will already be in the correct size box for it

[HDi fun]

Capacitors and batteries work on exactly the same principle.

[Reubiedoo]

Thanks very much guys for all your input.

No I haven't changed my head unit. I want to make sure I get the right one.

I was asking about the Ripspeed733B because it has everything I want;
-Screen compatible with reversing camera (which I want to get)
-DVD / MP3 / WMA / CD / CD-R / CD-RW / JPEG compatible
-Front AUX input for MP3 player or iPod
-4 x 50 Watts max power output
-Full detachable panel
-5 channels line-out: front, rear and subwoofer
-ISO connector

But general opinion on here has been negative. But, reviewers (not serious ones - can't find any on this product - just customers like on halfords etc) say the quality is good until you get loud - hence my desire for an amp.

But I am very willing to take suggestions.

Thanks all for your help.

Reu

[turbonutter69]

I've had one of those Ripspeed dvd,cd headunits and I can honestly say it was utter rubbish. When I bought mine it was pretty dear and it only stayed in the car around 2 months then I ripped it out and put a Sony Head unit in it's place.

[HDi fun]

There's a lot to be said for buying known quality brands.